0:00

Inflation is the end all be all of

0:03

productivity, whether you think your life is

0:05

worth living in a geographical location. And

0:07

then if it's not, it forces you

0:09

to make very tough decisions like leaving

0:11

your family behind, leaving your country behind,

0:13

your culture, having to adapt to a

0:16

whole new one. It turns your whole

0:18

life upside down. And I think the

0:20

carelessness of all the politicians who just

0:22

uses the money spigot as one of

0:24

the tools to gain like short term

0:26

political gains is evil,

0:28

straight up evil, because they are

0:30

a culprit in the mass exodus

0:33

of really talented people. Hopefully, Millet

0:35

can fix it. And

0:37

I think to be honest, like looking back at the

0:39

nine months of Millet so far, looking at

0:42

the different reforms that he has done and the things that he

0:44

has put out, I think he's doing a great job. Mr.

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1:33

So in the 90s, there was a show

1:35

called Blind Date, which was very similar, where

1:37

it was a guy or

1:39

a woman would stand behind like a, I

1:41

don't know what you'd call it. It'd be

1:43

a screen between you. Yeah, but it was like a sliding

1:45

screen and behind there'd be three people in a chair and

1:47

he'd ask questions. And at the end, he would pick one

1:49

to go on a date with. Right. And

1:52

then they would go off somewhere really nice,

1:54

have a really nice day on holiday. And

1:56

there was marriages that came off the back of this.

1:58

Okay. Yeah, real shit.

2:01

This is before Tinder. Yeah. This was a

2:03

famous UK Saturday show. Like on a Saturday,

2:05

you sit down as a family. And for

2:07

the Black. Cilla Black, who was a legend.

2:10

You know, she dated John Mageski. I

2:13

don't know who John Mageski is. He was the guy who

2:15

built the Reading Stadium, owned them for a long time. And

2:17

I got a step on my British culture game. Yeah, you

2:20

did. Like, Patty McGinnis is somebody that I... It sounds like

2:22

I want to know who that is. Oh, Patty McGinnis is

2:24

a... He's a cool guy. But anyway, so they

2:26

did this new version of a dating show. And

2:28

he used to say, no like. Oh, you

2:30

do. No like, you know, like, I've got the accent.

2:33

You've got the accent, like, you know, like... And then

2:35

they would go off on holiday. But it was always

2:37

to the Isle of Fernando. Oh, OK. It

2:40

would make it sound so funny. But it was

2:42

just Tenerife or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It

2:44

wasn't actually a real place, was it? I don't

2:46

think so. I think it actually was Tenerife. Yeah.

2:48

The Isle of Fernando is like this concept, right?

2:50

It's like where the love happens. Where, like, you

2:53

know, good stuff happens. It's the Isle of Fernando.

2:55

It's anywhere, anywhere. Said by you.

2:57

Said by you. I would know, right? I

2:59

am Fernando. So you've got, what,

3:01

name checks in songs, did you say? Yeah,

3:03

well, you know, Abba, come on, Fernando. Oh,

3:05

yeah, of course. Huge hits. Think Lady Gaga,

3:07

M Have

3:10

you been to the Abba show while you're here? No. It's good.

3:12

Not the 3D one. Yeah.

3:15

The musical. OK,

3:17

yeah. I wanted to like, I was hoping maybe Ricky

3:19

Gervais had a stand-up show or something while I was

3:22

here. But no, not again. Actually, I

3:24

do remember like The Office UK. They did

3:26

some like the Yeah,

3:28

he came in as like Austin Powers. That's

3:31

right. And there was another

3:33

guy Christmas special. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there was

3:35

another guy who was from West Ham and he

3:37

was like, oh, you'll be forever blowing bubbles. He's

3:39

like, no, no, no, that's not right. It's from

3:41

Bubble. Yeah, not Bubble. It was Bubble from like

3:43

one of the first big brothers. Do you remember?

3:45

Yeah. Bubble. Bubble. Did you have Tourette's? No,

3:48

no, that was Pete. No, that's not

3:50

Ian. I thought he's called Pete. Yeah,

3:52

Pete. Pete. That's right. He won. Yeah. Yeah.

3:55

I'm deep into Big Brother UK, by the

3:57

way. I've seen absolutely everything. I'm deep in.

4:00

and their knowledge. I wouldn't admit that. So you know,

4:02

I've hardly seen any of the awful shame of my

4:04

game. The Office UK is the best TV show ever.

4:06

I can't believe you said that. And I've seen some

4:08

of it. I've seen episodes

4:10

or bits, but I've never sat and watched the whole

4:12

thing. I genuinely think it's the best TV show ever

4:14

made. It is. It's full

4:17

of chloran man. It's like a piece of art. Totally. I

4:20

think, what's the one with the four kids?

4:23

Here comes the horrible take. I can feel it. No,

4:25

no. It's a good one. What's the one with the

4:27

four kids? Four kids. Oh,

4:29

that's brilliant. I think that's better in between. I never

4:32

heard about that. You've not. How old are you? Forty.

4:35

Forty. Okay. So

4:37

yeah, no, I was going to say it because this was

4:39

like four kids in high school and they were probably in

4:41

like sixth form, which is when you sort of 16, 17,

4:43

18 and the exact same

4:46

age I was. And it's all the degenerate, stupid

4:48

shit that kids do. And I was watching it

4:50

at that age and it was like perfect. I

4:52

was watching it in my mid thirties. It's

4:55

so funny. Actually, I watch it now in my 40s.

4:57

You absolutely watch it now. It's so funny. Don't watch

4:59

the film first. There's two films

5:01

actually. Two films. Yeah. Watch

5:03

the series first. Both. Is

5:05

it two series? Three series. Three series.

5:08

Watch those first and then watch the films. The great

5:10

thing about the films is it kind of peaked with

5:12

the film. Yeah. The one where they're

5:15

dancing. I thought they were all both films. Yeah. But

5:17

it kind of peaked and then it finished and that was it.

5:19

They were talking recently about trying to bring it back, but it

5:21

wouldn't work. I didn't watch it. They were showing

5:23

what they were all doing there. It's

5:26

like the most wildly inappropriate and

5:28

stereotypical British upbringing. I fucking love

5:30

that. Yeah. They are just...

5:33

This is the weird thing is that your

5:35

parents wouldn't have known that they were basically

5:38

mild exaggerations of those

5:40

characters. Every one of those characters,

5:42

I knew somebody was like one of them. Which

5:44

one were you? I was... I

5:48

don't know if I was one of them, but if it was one of them, it

5:51

was probably fucking Jay. No,

5:53

you are. No,

5:56

probably the tall one. Neil. Maybe

5:58

Neil. Yeah. British TV is

6:01

seriously underrated. British food as well. Like

6:03

food is very underrated. Insane. But like

6:05

Benny Hill, like that is no G

6:07

in the game. Come on. Benny Hill.

6:09

Benny Hill. I've never seen Benny Hill. Mr. Bean. You

6:12

gotta recognize. You gotta recognize. Yeah.

6:15

Uh, Benny Hill, you bring it up. You bring,

6:17

I don't think you bring that up as stuff

6:19

here. I

6:22

don't know about it. We've got some good stuff. I

6:24

think our food is underrated so much. I think, I

6:26

think there's a, the way I've always explained it is

6:28

if you got to the US, I

6:30

think the US is

6:32

top end restaurants or as good as our top

6:34

end restaurants. Are they just below

6:37

top end? I think we beat the US, but our

6:39

meat here is terrible compared to the US. We don't

6:41

do good bar food like the US. The US bar

6:43

food, they've got their meat, cheese, and bread. They've

6:46

got it absolutely nailed. Yeah. We're not good at

6:48

that. But also we've, we've

6:51

got like in London, there's so many good places

6:53

to wait. So many good places. Dude, anywhere. I've

6:55

been, I've been five months in the UK now

6:57

and just taking a car and just driving to

6:59

like random like gastropubs in the countryside. Fucking amazing

7:01

food. So you stay all around the country? All

7:03

around. Where have you been that you've lost? Two

7:05

months in London. I've been to Cotswolds, Devon,

7:09

and the place that I forget.

7:11

Somerset. Somerset. Been to Bath. Been

7:14

to... Bath's beautiful. Bath is pretty nice, but

7:16

I, I, I, I, I, I was at

7:18

Bath like four years ago and it's, it's

7:20

a lot, it's changed right now. It's like,

7:22

yeah, it's like really overcrowded touristy. Um,

7:25

now I'm in Cheltenham. Been to a

7:27

bunch of like Winstone,

7:29

Churchill, like towns that are

7:32

not even famous. Yeah. It was like random Airbnb's all

7:34

over the place. No Bedford. Nah. No,

7:36

yeah. I was about to go, I was about to come. Yeah. But it

7:38

was something that I can remember what happened when we did talk about it.

7:40

And I was going to come up. Are you hearing some jades from him?

7:42

Are you here at the end of the month? Uh,

7:45

I'm going back to Cheltenham now, coming back to London

7:47

on the 27th. And I stay until the

7:49

3rd of October before I go to... 28th. Yeah.

7:52

28th. We've got a home game. Okay,

7:54

let's go. Uh, and we're doing a Bitcoin meetup. Let's

7:57

go. You come down. Yes. Let me, I'm going to

7:59

keep a note. So I'm not sure that happened. for

8:01

sure, for sure. All right, man. So anyway, how you

8:03

been? No, man. All good. Enjoying

8:05

the British weather. I'm not being sarcastic.

8:08

I love rain. I love cold. So

8:10

it's beautiful right now. Good job you're here in some of them. Yeah,

8:13

yeah. And yeah, just getting to

8:15

know British culture, man. It's

8:18

interesting. So hold on. Were you

8:20

living out in the US or Argentina or before

8:22

this? Before what? Before coming

8:24

here? It's five months, yeah. I've been all over the

8:27

place for a while now, but I've been in Spain

8:29

for the past two years before starting to, yeah, this

8:31

nomadic life. Existive. Yes.

8:34

So there's a lot of values on

8:36

Argentina at the moment. For

8:38

sure. I saw even Elon

8:40

Musk was tweeting about Milan. They had

8:42

a little back and forth. Well

8:44

they met as well. Yeah. But

8:47

there's, it feels like Argentina is

8:50

the great libertarian test

8:52

use case. Yeah. Like

8:54

can it not work? And

8:57

I think a lot of people are going to be, certainly

8:59

within the communities we're in, are

9:02

intrigued to see how this plays out. I mean,

9:04

I was out there, God, trying

9:06

to remember. It was about eight months

9:08

ago or something like that. Eight months ago, I had a

9:10

great time back. I loved it. Completely fell in love with

9:12

the country and the people. Buenos Aires or

9:14

did you also travel around? Got a little bit out of

9:17

Buenos Aires. I can't remember where we went, but we went

9:19

out to a place and I rode horses. We

9:21

had a, we're drinking red wine and eat steak

9:23

at nine in the morning. It

9:26

was great. Women

9:28

are beautiful. A little bit hot tempered. A

9:30

little bit. Yeah. A little

9:32

bit. Okay. But no, I had a great

9:35

time. I fell in love with the country and I was excited to see

9:38

whether Millet would win and he did win

9:41

and now he's there. So I think,

9:44

I think there's two types of people who might

9:46

listen to the show. There's a bunch of Bitcoiners who

9:49

probably already convinced themselves this is a successful project

9:51

and it will work. But hopefully,

9:53

because obviously this is a new show, we're going

9:55

to get a bunch of people coming in who

9:57

probably don't know much about libertarianism. They might have

9:59

heard. about it, think they're

10:02

like some crazy radical

10:04

political extremist ideas. We

10:07

were chatting to Dominic Frisbee yesterday and I said

10:09

if you go out on the street here, go

10:11

out to Trafalgar Square and you

10:13

ask 10 people what left-wing politics is,

10:16

right-wing politics, they probably got solid answers

10:18

and you've asked them what libertarian politics

10:20

are, libertarian ideas, I

10:22

don't even know if you get one in 10

10:24

who could give a solid answer. Yeah, pretty much.

10:27

I think we'll have to do a bit of

10:29

groundwork in this and probably

10:31

go back and do a

10:33

bit of a history lesson

10:37

because Argentina historically

10:40

had a very successful economy, was it like

10:44

the fifth largest economy in the world at

10:46

one point? Yeah, top five, top 10, larger

10:49

than Canada, Australia, in

10:52

the beginning of the 20th century, easy. Measured

10:55

by GDP per capita, right? Like that's a

10:58

measurement that can be a little bit debated but

11:00

it's a good measuring stick to

11:02

see in terms of productivity,

11:05

in terms of just overall

11:07

well-being. And

11:10

I think the reason for that is

11:12

that a lot of people, they know

11:14

the story of the US, especially around

11:16

that time, right? They all

11:19

know European immigrants taking

11:21

a boat over the Atlantic, ended

11:23

up boarding in New York.

11:25

We've ever seen, everybody's seen the godfather,

11:27

seen the scene of Ido Andolini as

11:30

a kid coming alone singing in front

11:32

of the Statue of Liberty. But

11:34

what a lot of people don't recognize is that at

11:37

the exact same time, with the exact same demographic, the

11:39

same thing happened in Argentina too. So a lot of

11:41

people from Europe, they went to either New York or

11:44

Buenos Aires, same thing. They

11:46

all came with their families, they left

11:48

everything behind, took their

11:50

kids. And at that

11:52

time, you went on that boat, you didn't

11:54

come back. It wasn't that easy. So they

11:56

came with the mentality of like, we are

11:59

starting over. We're building. whatever we're going to.

12:01

We've heard a lot of good things. It's

12:03

a promised land, whatever. We're there to actually

12:05

build, be part of it. And

12:08

so they came with that mentality and I think this

12:10

is kind of the best example of immigration that actually

12:12

works, right? You need to have a lot of factors

12:14

already there. You need to have a country that's ready

12:16

to take in a lot of people. But

12:19

then you know government has to

12:21

give you, you know, room to experiment,

12:23

to open up a business, to fail,

12:25

to grow, to bring in

12:27

more people. And Argentina and the

12:29

US, they provided that at the

12:31

same time. Huge countries, huge geography,

12:34

diversity, and people

12:36

who came to build shit. Was

12:39

it provided or was it the

12:42

birth of new nations, the

12:45

political structures establishing itself while industries establishing

12:47

itself? It hasn't had time to interfere.

12:49

Right, yeah, you know the Industrial Revolution

12:51

had a part, like there's just

12:53

a bunch of major shifts happening in the

12:55

world I would say, or at least in

12:57

the in the developer at that very specific

12:59

time. But I

13:02

think the main difference is that, well two

13:04

things. I think the US at that time,

13:07

they had their independence in 1776 and

13:10

I think Argentina came later, kind of

13:12

like almost like a half century later

13:14

they gained their independence. So Argentina started

13:17

off a little bit late and the type

13:19

of immigration that came to the US

13:21

was also a little bit more diverse.

13:23

Not only Europeans but also like Chinese,

13:25

immigrants, Japanese, Mexicans has always been there.

13:28

So there was a the

13:30

mix of like race

13:32

and culture and ideologies

13:34

was really mixed. Whereas

13:36

in Argentina, it was

13:39

mostly European. Italian, Spanish, Russians,

13:41

you know, my last name is Nicholas,

13:43

you know, my grandfather was Serbian. So

13:46

there's a lot of European influence, whereas the

13:49

US had more variety and I think that

13:51

was kind of the first thing that led

13:54

Argentina down the wrong path because a

13:56

lot of the immigrants that were

13:58

escaping Europe, they were essentially escaping

14:00

a lot of

14:03

turbulence, a lot of political chaos,

14:05

you know, things that were happening

14:07

in the late 1800s in Europe

14:09

later became World War I, World

14:11

War II, the Spanish Civil War.

14:14

There's a lot of like crazy stuff happening,

14:16

right? And so they felt the lead-up and

14:18

got out. And

14:20

what that thing was, was essentially just a

14:22

fight like the rise of communism, the rise

14:25

of fascism and kind of like these things

14:27

fighting against each other and creating

14:29

that political chaos and uncertainty. So

14:33

as you know, you accept a

14:35

bunch of immigrants, this happens today, probably in the

14:37

UK as well, as a lot of immigrants come,

14:39

they take, they come with other stuff,

14:41

they come with baggage, they come with trauma, they come

14:44

with their ideologies, their

14:46

religions. And I think what

14:48

happened in Argentina is that the thing that

14:50

those, the fascist versus communist stuff

14:52

that happened in Europe, they brought that with

14:54

them as well. So in the

14:57

20s, the 30s, the

14:59

onset leading up to the 40s,

15:03

we saw the same thing happening in

15:05

Argentina, the same like left versus right,

15:07

fascist versus communist. And kind of like

15:09

that essentially led to Juan

15:12

Domingo Perón becoming the president. And

15:16

he's a guy who took a little bit of

15:18

everything, right? So yeah, the 50 years,

15:20

I would say from like 1880, 1890, when the

15:22

first wave of immigrants came,

15:28

and then like the three, four, five decades before

15:31

Perón, that was the golden

15:33

age. And that's kind

15:36

of like what Millet is saying today, we need to go back to

15:38

that, we need to make Argentina great again, we

15:40

got to go back to this time. Before

15:43

all this left, right, idiotic

15:46

discussions were a

15:49

thing. Because Argentina's successful

15:52

economy had a, as

15:54

I understand it, had a film industry

15:57

that was competitive with Hollywood.

16:00

I don't know about that. Well, I did the

16:03

research before it went out. And

16:06

I saw a lot of the footage and a lot

16:08

of the history of Argentina. For

16:10

a country that doesn't have vast

16:13

natural resources, excuse

16:16

me, you seem to have a very successful

16:18

economy. Yeah, I mean, Argentina is always super

16:20

creative. So, you know, film,

16:23

music is a good

16:25

reflection of that. And I think in the

16:28

Latin American sphere, maybe crossing over to Spain

16:30

once in a while, Argentinian movies have made

16:32

it. And, you know, they

16:34

were telling good stories. But

16:37

in terms of like Hollywood influence on the world,

16:39

no, not at all. But definitely within the Latin

16:41

American sphere, yeah, for sure. But, you know, we

16:43

can say the same thing about Mexicans as well.

16:46

So the big change came with Perón and

16:49

how do you pronounce it? Peronism? Peronism,

16:52

yeah. Peronism. Peronismo. Yeah,

16:55

what came with that? Oh, man. Shit. That's

16:58

the stuff that has lingered for the last 80 years

17:00

before Millet basically came into power. And

17:02

it has like metastasized into so many different

17:05

formats that it's kind of like right now

17:07

Peronism. The modern Peronism is not even

17:10

close to what Peronism with Perón was. And I

17:13

can try to break it down. Perón

17:16

was like heavily

17:19

influenced by Mussolini, by

17:21

Franco. He loved the

17:23

fascist aesthetics. He himself was

17:26

a military. He was a

17:28

general, right? So he came through the ranks. He was

17:30

a military guy. So

17:32

obviously he believed in like

17:34

authoritarianism and got inspired by

17:36

the fascists. And what's the

17:39

thing, right? I mean, in the UK you had

17:41

your MOSLIS and I

17:43

think the brother of King Philip was

17:45

also like sympathetic with that. Fascism

17:48

was big. But

17:51

he became a pragmatist. He

17:54

took a couple of things from Mussolini

17:57

and Franco, but he mixed

17:59

it. He sprinkled it with

18:01

some communist rhetoric and, well,

18:06

yeah, rhetoric, political rhetoric. So he basically

18:08

was all about

18:10

the state

18:13

controlling everything. So communism and

18:15

fascism have that in common. But

18:18

the way he wanted to go about it was not

18:20

necessarily like the fascists do focus on like nationalism, religion

18:23

and stuff like that, but more about

18:26

like the communists do, like they strip off

18:28

your individuality and it's all about allegiance to

18:31

the party, you know, to the party of

18:33

Peron and then at least authoritarian figures, like

18:35

a cult of personality type of thing. So

18:37

he meshed that with the fascism and

18:40

created like an interesting blend that has like

18:42

a formula that worked pretty well, that worked

18:44

for, you know, many, many decades, almost a

18:46

hundred years. And

18:49

basically what he then

18:51

instilled was just nationalizing all

18:54

the, all the important companies.

18:59

He started, you

19:01

know, becoming a populist, a demagogue

19:03

promising a bunch of stuff just

19:05

to get elected. He

19:08

literally like, this is a real story. He

19:11

with Evita used to go to La Vicha

19:14

Miseria, the favelas of Buenos

19:16

Aires and stuff, and

19:18

literally gave people like, you know, here's

19:20

the, here's the left shoe. If

19:23

you vote for me and I, and I went,

19:25

I come back and give you the right shoe. Like,

19:27

you know, I'll give you stuff, but you know, it

19:29

comes with a, comes with a catch. And

19:32

essentially what he started was this Uber

19:35

nationalization of all, of all the means, state

19:38

being in control of everything, like the

19:40

state being the main driver of growth.

19:43

But as we know, and has been proven a thousand

19:46

times when you put the state as the driver of

19:48

growth is the driver, is

19:50

this driver of stagnation. So that's

19:52

essentially what happened. And then this

19:55

visual vicious cycle that we can

19:57

maybe go into detail happened.

19:59

where basically there's an economic downturn.

20:03

And so the government looks at that and

20:05

say, okay, we got to max up the

20:07

public spending. We got to max up all

20:09

the social plans. And how

20:12

do they finance that? They finance that with

20:14

printing money or increasing the debt. And in

20:16

Argentina's case, both at the same

20:18

time. What that does

20:20

is you're devaluating

20:22

your currency, you're inflating

20:25

the currency and you're

20:27

indebted to the IMF or whatever.

20:29

So it's a vicious cycle that

20:32

started with Peron that has metastasized

20:34

into many different ways. And Millet

20:36

has put a stop to it

20:38

now after 80 years of this. What

20:41

was that quote yesterday on the speech? From

20:44

Millet. I don't think it was

20:46

his original quote, but it was very good I

20:48

wrote down. He said, socialism is always and everywhere

20:51

in publishing phenomenon. Yeah, and

20:53

I keep bringing

20:55

up this Millet speech and I've shared it out to

20:57

quite a few people now because what I thought was

20:59

great about his speech, it

21:02

gives a solid understanding of

21:05

what we may face somewhere

21:07

like here in the UK. And we've

21:09

been through the

21:11

most difficult period of inflation I've known

21:13

in my life. I

21:16

mean, I don't know as a kid if there were period of

21:18

inflation that were higher, perhaps there were my parents dealt with, I

21:20

don't know. But as an adult. During the

21:22

70s, there's a lot of inflation. I

21:24

was born in 78. But

21:27

this is my first proper experience of inflation

21:29

and seeing the impact. Seeing

21:32

the impact to friends, to families, to

21:35

myself, the impact that

21:37

will have say on my children if they wanna get

21:39

in the housing ladder which is virtually impossible without any

21:42

help from myself. Seeing the impact on

21:44

the businesses I've run, I can

21:47

see it. And

21:50

I think a lot

21:52

of people don't really understand the

21:56

problem with socialism. And I don't

21:59

know. I don't also think socialism

22:01

is binary. I don't think

22:03

it's like you are socialist. There

22:06

are socialist policies that a government can have. And

22:09

I heard a

22:11

really good argument recently that there's a new modern

22:13

form of socialism slash communism, whatever you want to

22:15

do, is that you don't need to own the

22:17

means of production. You

22:19

just need to control it.

22:22

And you can control it through taxation

22:24

and legislation. I remember when I first

22:26

started getting into Bitcoin, you'd hold a

22:29

certain opinion, like, I don't mind certain

22:31

policies. And long-term

22:33

Bitcoiners go, you're just a commie. And

22:36

you're like, no, not a commie. I'm not a fucking communist,

22:38

this. But I've started to appreciate that comment.

22:40

What directionally they're saying is that this is

22:43

a slippery slope. And so

22:45

we've had declared, what, 11% inflation, 12% maybe here? Yeah,

22:49

going through the gist. It's

22:51

way more than that. I know

22:54

from the end of COVID to now, your

22:57

groceries are probably up 40%, 50%. And

23:00

everything is very expensive. And wages

23:02

aren't that much higher. And

23:05

I know how much public debt there

23:07

is. I know that the

23:10

government now spends nearly

23:12

$100 billion a year on interest, just paying interest off

23:14

the debt. I know that

23:17

the money they need to raise, the current government

23:19

they want to raise, can

23:21

possibly not be done through taxation, because we're already at

23:23

kind of like, we've run our bullets on taxation. They're

23:26

looking at capital gains and inheritance tax. I see all

23:28

that. And I see that they

23:31

don't see the solution as libertarian ideas and making

23:33

governments smaller. They don't want to do that. And

23:35

so they're either going to tax more, or they're

23:37

going to inflate the money more. But

23:40

either way, this problem, this cycle is getting worse. So

23:42

I know it's coming. So when I watch that Millet

23:44

speech, I want to package that up and

23:46

deliver that to everyone in this country. I want

23:48

to deliver it to anyone who

23:50

thinks socialist policies are good. I want to

23:53

deliver it to them and say, look, this is the impact.

23:55

And it's most likely going to harm the people you want

23:57

to help the most. And

23:59

that inflates the money. you've experienced recently, you're

24:01

going to experience it again, it's going to

24:03

get worse, the cycles are going to get

24:05

worse. So having someone like you here to

24:07

explain what it's

24:09

like for people, what it's been like for the

24:12

last few decades in Argentina, hopefully

24:14

would help them to just flick a switch

24:17

and maybe even go watch the Malay speech. Because

24:21

I think what Malay said really

24:23

well in it, he said, can

24:25

you remember, if you got the transcript, he was something

24:27

on the lines of, I'm here to give you a

24:29

warning, I'm here to tell you,

24:31

I'm here to show you what we've been through in

24:34

Argentina, and I see you're going in the same direction.

24:36

He's literally in a warning, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like,

24:38

dude, I come from the future here. Like, listen to

24:40

me. Listen to me. And so, it's, you

24:43

know, I'm rambling on a bit here, but

24:45

it's one of the reasons we switched

24:48

up this podcast, is that we

24:50

can keep talking about Bitcoin, but we need to go higher

24:52

up with people. Bitcoin is a barrier. You have to have

24:54

done certain amount of work to get there or been lucky

24:56

to discover it. For sure. We

24:59

don't want to show what Bitcoin did, because that's a

25:01

barrier. We want to get these messages, and we want

25:03

people to understand this stuff sooner. So, long

25:07

lead into, explain

25:10

what inflation has been like in

25:13

Argentina, because it's been a multi-decade phenomenon

25:16

for the country, and I know

25:19

you've gone through periods of where it's inflation to

25:21

high inflation to hyperinflation. Explain what

25:23

that's been like for the country, for the people living

25:25

there. Yeah. Maybe

25:28

just touch on some of the things that

25:30

you said, because it's super interesting. And then,

25:32

you know, like the reason I'm saying communism

25:34

versus fascism is because at that time, that

25:36

was the real communism and fascism. Like, people

25:39

call things communist or commie this,

25:41

fascist that, and it's not really

25:43

that. I mean, today is just

25:45

a new package. It's a new

25:48

brand. They have mixed in on

25:50

a sprinkle in a lot of different things. It's

25:52

not really fascist. It's not really commie, but people

25:54

still use these terms in a

25:56

derogatory way. Just kind of

25:58

like explain, like... You

26:01

guys are crazy, whatever you're

26:03

proposing. But

26:05

communism and fashion was a real thing back

26:07

then. And in terms of inflation,

26:10

I mean, I grew up

26:12

in Norway as a kid.

26:15

I was just out there. Yeah? I

26:18

grew up in Oslo. I speak Norwegian better than maybe

26:21

my English and Spanish altogether. And

26:24

why did I grow up in Norway? Because my

26:26

mom emigrated from Argentina in 1989 when I was

26:28

a kid. Because

26:30

of hyperinflation right there. My

26:33

dad had two restaurants, like

26:35

two baricas, two barbecues. He

26:37

had like three cars, like high middle class.

26:41

Hyperinflation came in 1988, 1989. And that

26:44

was also like a very turbulent time because in

26:46

1983 we had come out of a military dictatorship.

26:50

Like there was a junta that came in 1976. And

26:53

whatever came into power. And in

26:55

1983 they were ousted. And

26:58

that's kind of like how democracy started back

27:00

again. But in the following years

27:02

after that, it was just

27:05

like a crazy chaos. They

27:07

moved the capital from Buenos Aires to Vienna. And they're

27:09

like, oh no, no, we do a 180, go back

27:11

to Buenos Aires. We're going to introduce

27:13

a new currency called the Austral. It's not going to be pesos anymore. Oh,

27:15

by the way, that was a bad idea. Let's backtrack on that. It's

27:19

like, yeah, insane. And in 1988, 1989, everything

27:21

exploded. And my family was like, there's no

27:24

opportunity here. We

27:27

lost everything. As

27:29

inflation goes up, you're forced to sell your asset

27:31

because you need cash flow to cover other expenses.

27:34

In my dad's case, he needed to cover

27:36

the rising costs of the meat, the wages,

27:39

everything. How old were you? I

27:42

was born in 1983. And what age were you

27:44

when you left? Five, six years. Do

27:47

you remember it at all? Yeah, I do. My

27:49

dad actually stayed in Argentina. I

27:52

was going back to Argentina all the time because my dad,

27:55

the rest of my family was there. It was only me

27:57

and my mom in Norway. So my mom had to learn

27:59

to sell. her university

28:01

degrees was not valid, so she had to take school

28:03

all over again. She was a young mom. She was

28:05

22 years old when I was born. So

28:08

at an age of 27, with a five-year-old kid,

28:13

having to learn Norwegian, adapting to the culture, which

28:15

is, can't compare

28:17

with Argentinian culture, and

28:19

study again, start school at a late age.

28:22

And that's a direct result

28:25

of the hyperinflationary dumpster fire that

28:27

was Argentinian at that time. And, sorry, and throughout

28:30

time, I always come back to Argentina. I went

28:32

there every summer to visit my dad and stuff,

28:35

and I was there for two or three months. Everybody

28:37

was talking about inflation, inflation this, inflation that. I

28:39

was like, what is this inflation thing? It never

28:41

goes away. Why do people still keep talking about

28:43

these things? And then I saw, as

28:46

I grew up, more young people continue

28:48

to emigrate from Argentina. So I was like,

28:51

what's going on? This inflation thing never stops

28:53

being a topic. The brain

28:56

drain is incredible. People keep leaving

28:58

Argentina. The people who are supposed to

29:00

be there and actually make the country better are going

29:03

to Spain and going to the US and

29:05

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that was one of the saddest things on

31:30

my trip to Argentina. We went to the

31:32

Buenos Aires Rugby Club and

31:35

had a round day when I beer with five

31:37

or six people. And one of

31:39

the things like I appreciate about Argentina is the

31:41

strong family culture. Way stronger than we have in

31:43

the UK. Families getting

31:45

together, putting on the barbeque. What do you call

31:48

that barbecue? Yeah, putting on the barbeque, cooking up

31:50

a bunch of steak, and just hanging

31:52

out as family. And

31:54

one of the men who was there, his son was

31:57

there, but the others were saying, all of them were

31:59

saying they could. kids have left. They're

32:01

in Australia, UK, US, because there's no

32:03

opportunity here. They can't get

32:05

a job. If they can get a job, there's no way

32:07

they can save to get to the point where they can

32:09

own a house. It's just the

32:11

inflation is so bad, there's no opportunity. And

32:16

I think somewhere here in like the

32:18

UK, our experience of inflation is prices

32:21

have gone up a little bit. I've got a little bit less

32:23

money to go out with. I mean historically when it's 2% to

32:25

3% inflation, it's just like, oh,

32:27

it's just this thing. It's part of the growing

32:30

economy. You just you're you're gasoline to accepting it.

32:32

And then when it's 10, 12% it's

32:34

tough. You have protests or people

32:37

are struggling, but again, you survive

32:40

it and you get through it and people have. And

32:43

it's been very tough for some people. But

32:45

the levels of inflation that you've experienced, what

32:47

people experience in Argentina, it

32:49

creates a whole different environment. It

32:53

does. And in the 90s

32:55

when we had this very

32:57

fine boy and president called Menem,

33:00

Carlos Menem, he

33:02

did one thing to curb that after all the

33:04

chaos in the day and then that was having

33:06

a convertibility of one peso is

33:08

$1. That

33:10

lasted for the entire entirety of the 90s. And

33:12

I remember going back as a kid in the

33:14

90s, like going to the video halls and playing

33:18

the arcade games. Everybody

33:20

was out, everybody was traveling abroad.

33:22

It was a different vibe. People were

33:24

like more, more productive, more

33:26

happy. You could feel it in the air. So

33:30

inflation is the end all be all of

33:32

productivity, whether you think your life

33:35

is worth living in a geographical

33:37

location. And then if

33:39

it's not, it forces you to make very

33:41

tough decisions like leaving your family behind, leaving

33:43

your country behind, your culture, having to adapt

33:45

to a whole new one and new languages.

33:47

So it turns your whole life upside down.

33:49

And I think the

33:52

carelessness of all the politicians who just

33:55

uses the money spigot as one

33:57

of the tools to gain short term

33:59

political. gains

34:02

is evil, straight up evil,

34:04

because they are a culprit

34:06

in the mass exodus of

34:09

really talented people. We

34:11

talked about film, music, sports.

34:15

Dude, Argentines are talented. We're

34:19

messy, Maradona, Che Guevara, come on. We

34:22

got great talent, great creativity, and it's

34:24

sad to see that being spilled away.

34:26

So hopefully Millet can fix it. I

34:28

think to be honest, looking back at

34:30

the nine months of Millet so far,

34:33

looking at the different reforms that he has done and the

34:35

things that he has put out, I think he's doing a

34:37

great job. If it's an

34:40

issue that's lasted decades

34:43

in Argentina,

34:45

what is it culturally about Argentinians

34:48

that they seem to keep

34:50

accepting, keep voting in the

34:52

same bullshit? Well,

34:54

two things, I think. A combination

34:56

of two things. One, unfortunately, the

34:59

Peronist electoral base is,

35:02

I don't know, at this point, it's kind of

35:04

like dying down, but during the Peronist eight days,

35:07

the electorate was a good 35, 40%

35:10

of the voting population.

35:13

Huge demographic. So by just

35:15

keeping the same thing going, they

35:17

got those votes. Were they the

35:19

poorest people in society? Yeah, but also

35:21

straight up indoctrinated, brainwashed people as well.

35:25

People who just believe in these promises.

35:30

Another thing that Argentinians do, which I

35:32

personally hate, is that they treat these

35:35

things as the football teams. Like,

35:38

hey, man, to a certain extent in the

35:40

West, this happens as well. My

35:42

family always voted Democrat. My family

35:44

always voted Republican. You see these

35:47

things in the US, but

35:49

Argentina is completely crazy. In

35:52

this house, we are Peronists. And

35:55

then it's just inherited.

35:57

Your grandfather was a Peronist, your father was a Peronist. you

35:59

have to become a parent and you need to teach that to

36:02

your kids. So that's a big

36:04

factor of the

36:07

perpetuating of the

36:09

parent culture, ideology,

36:12

and the voter base just being a

36:14

factor in Argentine

36:16

politics. So the fact that

36:18

Millet was able to win, having such

36:21

a huge electorate, not even

36:23

believing in any of these ideas remotely

36:25

that Millet proposed, and instead he got

36:28

the young people to vote, he got the elder

36:30

people, he kind of like Millet managed to wrap

36:34

up his messaging in a very compelling

36:36

way. And he used memes, he

36:38

used internet culture as well to get that

36:40

message through to young people and he made

36:42

it. It's extraordinary

36:44

the way he managed to actually

36:47

win the vote democratically, knowing this

36:49

about Argentinians. So that's

36:51

on one side, the other side is like Argentinians are

36:53

survivors, the way we adapt, we

36:57

are pragmatists, no matter what kind of

36:59

challenge comes into our way. We

37:02

know how to get out of sticky situations,

37:04

we know how to improvise and adapt quickly.

37:06

So I think that's another reason

37:09

for like, okay, the inflation is

37:11

happening there, but then a

37:13

certain subset of people, they know how

37:15

to play the game and manage to

37:17

survive. But it's not for everyone either,

37:19

it's not for the most vulnerable people

37:21

in society. The people who do

37:23

that are like often middle class people who are

37:25

a little bit tech savvy, you know, lately, maybe

37:27

they go get into Bitcoin, maybe they get into

37:29

stables. And they kind

37:31

of like do the Quebas, which you know well,

37:34

right? Like these underground exchange houses where you're kind

37:36

of like, yeah, okay, no, we have capital controls

37:38

where you legally can buy 200 US dollars per

37:40

month. But

37:42

if you want to go beyond that, hey, there's ways.

37:45

Well, I used it myself. Yeah. Yeah,

37:47

I remember in the documentary, you did it through WhatsApp

37:49

or something, right? And they came to your hotel lobby

37:51

or something? Well, I fucked up first because somebody told

37:53

me I needed tether. And

37:57

so I got it on Ethereum and the money guy

37:59

turns and he's like, no, bro, you need

38:01

this on Polygon or Tron. The

38:04

fees are too high. So I then had to go

38:06

transfer it back, convert it. So I lost a bunch

38:08

of value by that. But yeah, no. But

38:11

it was quite easy. It was quite an easy process to

38:13

do. Yeah, it's open. It's not like

38:16

you don't have the underground feel of like

38:18

I'm doing something sketchy here. It's like, yeah,

38:20

come, meet me anywhere. Do those

38:22

capital controls still exist on the Malay? Yeah.

38:24

They do. Yeah, and that's, you know, we can also

38:26

talk about criticism against Malay too, but that's one of

38:29

the things that he said, you know, capital

38:31

controls needs to be ousted. It's

38:34

still nine months later. It's still a thing.

38:36

What's the reason for that? I

38:39

think capital, I mean, this is shortage, always

38:41

a shortage of US dollars in Argentina.

38:44

And capital controls is a good way to, you know,

38:48

for the central bank to control

38:50

the money supply through capital flows.

38:52

So imposing this

38:55

totally arbitrary number, like $200, is

38:57

just whatever, they just improvise it. But it's like, okay, $200. They

39:01

manage to, like I said, control the

39:03

money supply through capital flows. But what

39:06

that does is like, you're

39:08

not, you're limiting

39:11

people's access to

39:13

a stronger currency, and

39:15

that's not good for foreign investment neither. So

39:18

it's super detrimental as a whole, but

39:20

it serves the central bank that specific purpose, controlling

39:22

the money supply through the capital flows. Well, it

39:24

comes down to that big red button question. I

39:28

think it's Scott Horton on his website. They have a

39:30

question on the big red button. If you could press

39:32

the big red button and get rid of government, would

39:35

you do it? And I think the conclusion in

39:37

that article is no, it's not a good idea

39:39

because it's too destructive. It's

39:42

too chaotic. But I've equally, when I was

39:44

questioning libertarian ideas, I always reach out to Stefan

39:47

Rivera, who recommended you, by the way. Shout out,

39:49

Stefan, Stefan. You're the reason I'm here. He

39:52

gave me another article and said, no, you should. You know,

39:54

if you want to get rid of government, you come in

39:56

and you just, it's like a

39:59

drug withdrawal. You just go straight

40:02

into withdrawal and you go

40:04

through the painful period and

40:06

see what happens. But my

40:10

expectation is for someone like Millet, and we

40:12

should go backwards and actually cover the Millet

40:14

build-up, but for someone like Millet, I

40:17

think politically and economically, I think

40:19

it has to be step

40:21

by step. It feels like it has to be

40:24

a transitionary period, one

40:26

for the country we also code

40:28

with it, but also there's going to

40:30

be many people who are going

40:32

to suffer from no longer

40:34

having the ability to suck on the tea to

40:37

the government and benefit from

40:39

that. So I understand that.

40:42

Just before we get into Millet, there are

40:44

a few other things. So the tools to

40:46

survive will obviously change technology. The internet will

40:48

have changed things and given people access to

40:51

international capital markets and foreign currencies.

40:53

And like you say, Bitcoin

40:55

now, but historically, what have been the

40:57

tools of survival for people? Anything,

41:01

man. I've seen crazy stuff like olive

41:03

oil being like a hard

41:06

currency. Anything,

41:09

bricks, just stack

41:11

bricks, and then you can resell

41:13

them and they go up in value as

41:15

inflation rises. Anything,

41:17

like I said, Argentinas are crafty.

41:19

So it's anything.

41:21

I heard the brick things. So the people in the

41:25

more pauper neighborhoods, you know where they kind of, there's

41:27

no real planning controls in

41:30

terms of building. People just build up there. Yeah, yeah.

41:32

The house. They were saying what people do is buy

41:34

the bricks or buy the flooring or

41:36

the roof slates over time. And then

41:38

once they had enough, they would just

41:41

build another room onto their house. It's

41:43

crazy stuff though. Yeah. In Buenos Aires,

41:45

you see some crazy advanced stuff like

41:47

five stories on top of it. It's

41:50

like, that's going to collapse any minute.

41:52

But hey, we should also cover El

41:54

Corralita. Yeah. What

41:56

happened there? Because again,

41:58

some people listening might. No history of Argentina.

42:02

Well, Corralito, we

42:07

mentioned briefly the 90s in Argentina

42:11

with Menem. He had this one

42:13

peso is equal to

42:15

one USD that

42:18

gave people a lot of stability. People

42:21

could plan a little bit more long

42:23

term. And you saw just

42:25

growth in general.

42:27

But the vicious cycle

42:30

of printing more money and

42:33

increasing the debt to fund these public

42:37

programs, the social programs, still continued.

42:40

Menem is, you know, Millet even

42:42

said Menem is his favorite president

42:44

in history. He was still a

42:46

Peronist. But at that time,

42:48

the Peronism, like I said, had metastasized into

42:51

different flavors. So he had a

42:54

lot of ideas from the Chicago school inspired

42:57

by Milton Friedman and all of

42:59

that. So he had an

43:02

advisor, the Ministry of Economy called Domingo

43:04

Caballo. He

43:06

was a graduate from that

43:08

school. And so they implemented a

43:10

lot of like neoliberal, more like

43:12

conservative economical measures that helped. But

43:14

still, they just kept printing and

43:16

kept increasing debt. And they

43:19

managed to hold that for a

43:21

decade. And in the 2000s, it was over. There

43:25

was also another crisis in Mexico

43:27

called the tequila crisis in Mexico.

43:30

I don't exactly remember what they did, but there was

43:32

like some

43:35

economical collapse in Mexico as well that

43:37

reverberated in the Latin American economy and

43:39

affected Argentina, as well as this like

43:42

artificial one on one

43:45

peso with a dollar. So all of that was a

43:47

powder keg that was just waiting to explode and it

43:49

did explode in 2000, 2001. And

43:53

with that came again, political instability, a lot

43:55

of violence in the streets, a lot of

43:57

protests, a lot of people dying. And.

44:00

There was a period where we had like

44:02

one precedent every six months, you know, back

44:04

and forth, back and forth. And

44:06

Fernando de la Rua was the first one

44:08

that came after Menem. He literally had to

44:10

escape in a helicopter from the from the

44:13

from the Lacazada in the in

44:15

the roof. And after that,

44:17

that, you know, again, Duol, a bunch of

44:20

other precedents. I didn't even remember the names.

44:22

They were so short in

44:24

office. And it

44:26

was a very difficult period for for

44:28

Argentina. That was the time when my

44:30

dad emigrated to

44:33

finally. So he went to

44:35

Spain. And I'm done. I'm done. Hyperinflation 88,

44:37

Corralito 2000. That's it. That's it for

44:39

me. So, yeah, it

44:42

was a lot of instability that kind of

44:45

opened the doors for somebody called Nestor Kirchner,

44:47

who came in and became elected president in

44:49

2003. And

44:51

he started this Kirchnerism

44:53

phase, which is like a

44:55

Peronism 2.0. That

44:59

was the leading political power

45:01

until Millet managed to win

45:03

over them. So,

45:06

yeah, again, modern history of

45:08

Argentina is just reflective of the older history

45:10

of the past of Argentina as well. Just

45:12

the same vicious cycles all over again. And

45:14

people, you know, as generations

45:17

pass, they just repeat the same things

45:19

just in a different flavor. How

45:21

much is bad policy and how much is corruption? Yeah,

45:25

exactly. Yeah, it's everything at

45:27

once. You know, it's everything

45:30

at once. And ultimately, unfortunately,

45:32

you said political and economical factors with Millet. I think

45:35

you're forgetting the third one, which is the cultural factor.

45:38

And it's just the culture in

45:40

Argentina is always leaning towards, you

45:45

know, the thief is a

45:47

glorified person. You know, if

45:50

you Stockholm syndrome, kind of, kind of. But

45:52

if you're able to get away with something,

45:54

if you're able to like bend the law,

45:56

if you're able to do something legal and

45:58

not get caught. That stuff is

46:01

celebrated. So

46:03

that culture is

46:06

pretty prevalent and you see it in any

46:08

level. I remember when I was 13 years

46:10

old in Argentina and I was driving a

46:12

car and I got stopped over by a

46:14

policeman and motorcycle and he was like, can

46:17

I see your driver license? And I gave him like a $20 bill.

46:20

Here's my driver license. And he's like, okay, cool. And

46:23

let me go. So at any level, at

46:25

the lowest, literally on the streets, you see that

46:27

level of corruption. So that's just the way it

46:29

is. So,

46:31

Malay's rise, when I went out there,

46:34

not everyone was in favor of Malay. I

46:36

would ask everyone, are you in favor of Malay?

46:38

Not everyone, but I would say 60 to 70%

46:41

of the people I met were keen.

46:43

Some people feared him, thought it

46:45

would be disruptive, thought Argentina weren't

46:47

ready for what feels

46:49

to them like radical economic policies.

46:54

But most of the people I met

46:56

said, they're kind of at the point they said, had

46:58

enough. Argentina's

47:02

government and policies have not worked for decades now. We

47:04

need something new. Where did he come from? Where did

47:06

he come from? Because it felt like he came out

47:09

of nowhere to us from the outside. Yeah. Well,

47:12

you got to think about the

47:14

younger people, all like kids

47:16

who were born in the 2000s, all

47:20

they've seen is stagflation and populist rhetoric

47:22

and populist policies. That's all they know.

47:24

So somebody like Malay is like, whoa,

47:26

okay, where does that guy come from?

47:29

Obviously it will take your attention. And

47:31

the way, I personally discovered Malay in

47:33

2018-ish. He

47:36

was just an economist who got invited to

47:38

a lot of these debate shows on

47:40

TV. And he was always making

47:42

a spectacle. You know, like you remembered every time he

47:45

was at a panel. He was wild. It

47:47

was insane. All his looks like crazy hair.

47:49

Just do like, look, his eyes are insane.

47:51

And then he just shouts at people. So

47:53

it's like, okay, well, this guy got it

47:56

for TV and radio. That's a guy you

47:58

always invite back. But

48:00

he's actually, you know, his message was clear.

48:03

And the thing is, like, his

48:06

message is like Austrian economics, right?

48:08

Like the Mises, the Rothbards, the,

48:10

you know, those

48:12

guys. And usually, historically, anybody

48:15

who has tried to like, um,

48:17

Austrian pill people, they

48:20

talk in a very academic way, you know,

48:22

it's very academic, all of these theories, monetary

48:24

theories, blah, blah. But Millet took that and

48:27

wrapped it in a package that

48:29

made sense for young people, old

48:31

people, and also was reflective

48:33

of the current situation in Argentina. So

48:35

all of that was mixed into like

48:37

this package of awesome

48:41

communication, awesome personal branding that people were

48:43

like, whoa, this guy is making sense

48:45

and these ideas I've never heard before.

48:47

So I want to know more. I

48:49

want to know more. He kept getting

48:51

invited back. And, you know,

48:53

for his political enemies, I think that was like

48:55

something that probably regrets because he, he was

48:57

invited to all channels. Like there's, you

49:00

know, there's States channels, there's different media

49:02

in Argentina that are leaning a very

49:04

specific political way. He literally got invited

49:06

to all the shows from all channels.

49:08

So he's, his message, you know, uh,

49:10

got distributed pretty, pretty well. And

49:13

that's it. That, that, that was the start. And

49:15

that just literally was the thing that led up

49:17

to him going. I

49:20

mean, he started this political party in 2021

49:22

and then won the whole thing in

49:24

2023, two years later, it's incredible. Yeah. I

49:27

mean that the speed of rise is incredible.

49:29

Were they attacking him? Oh yeah. For

49:32

sure. Always, always. But

49:34

in like, in a, in like petty

49:36

way, like it's not even funny. Like, Oh,

49:38

he doesn't have kids. He

49:41

sleeps with his dogs. Uh,

49:43

you know, like his sister, why is, why

49:45

are they so close? Do they have something

49:47

going on? It's just like tabloid rumors, trying

49:49

to just like defame him his name, but

49:52

never an attack on his ideas because when

49:54

they did, Millet is just gonna, he's

49:56

going to kill you if you try to like debate

49:58

with him. Not

50:00

only because of he will outsmart

50:03

you and he will be right about these

50:05

things, but also like the delivery. He just

50:07

bulldozed over you. So a lot of people

50:10

were not even able to come

50:12

out from a debate with Millet and

50:14

having their side say, oh yeah, you killed

50:16

him. Millet was like

50:19

a force to be reckoned with that was unstoppable,

50:21

literally. Have you ever seen this when

50:23

he's on the TV shows? I've seen it like the

50:25

thing with the chainsaw. No, there was

50:27

a TV show, there was a debate and he

50:29

would always refer to leftists, wouldn't he? And

50:32

he would say, leftists, don't give them any

50:34

room. But like an

50:36

angry round. Don't agree with it.

50:40

I can't remember what he said. He was like, don't

50:42

give them any room. Don't,

50:45

you've got to get rid of them. They're

50:47

evil. You

50:49

know, they destroy everything. They break it.

50:51

Like he was very, very direct. He

50:54

wouldn't, it's almost like he wasn't debating

50:56

the point. He was shouting

50:58

down and not accepting and shutting off

51:00

all the oxygen to any discussion rationalizing

51:02

what are socialist policies. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

51:05

And it's like in communication, I think,

51:07

you know, your background is in PR

51:09

as well, right? So you have this

51:11

technique called bridging, right? Where it's like,

51:13

no matter what question you're being asked,

51:15

you find a way to bridge back to what you

51:17

really want to say. Millet is just

51:19

like an expert in that, you know, and it's

51:21

just like, OK, you want to talk about like some

51:24

policy about how to manage a

51:26

dam somewhere in the North of Argentina. OK, first sentence

51:28

is about that. And then the second is going to

51:30

be sort of the fucking socialist. I'm always going to

51:32

go back to that. And that is the thing that

51:34

people remember. And he did that

51:37

because that is what the parent represents.

51:39

And he's kind of like, let's not

51:41

forget what they really are. That's that's

51:43

basically what he was trying to convey

51:45

here. Like they they draped themselves in

51:47

like woke ideology. You know,

51:49

they they put on like the green, the green

51:51

bandanas and stuff like that. They're all feminist and

51:53

woke and all of that. They

51:56

fly the trans flag, whatever in their meetings. But

51:58

let's not forget what they. really are. It's

52:00

like Millet saying don't get fooled by all

52:02

these like cosmetics. This is

52:05

the this is the root of the

52:07

Peronist movement and what they really believe

52:09

in. So that was effective. Yeah it's

52:11

definitely one of those things that's worth digging

52:13

out because I actually saw a few of

52:15

them and it was very effective, very effective.

52:17

And it's funny because you know

52:21

we have a left wing government now in the UK and

52:23

just to be as clear as possible I wouldn't vote for

52:25

it. I didn't vote. I wouldn't vote for any one of

52:27

them. I think they're all shit. They didn't vote at all.

52:29

No I didn't vote. I'm voting the last three elections. There's

52:31

nothing to vote for. The

52:34

two hours that I would spend going to the

52:37

voting, the place

52:39

where you'd vote, I can't remember it wasn't near me. It's like an

52:41

old church or village hall.

52:44

The time I would spend doing that is more

52:46

productive spent working on my companies. Definitely. Because I've

52:49

come to this realization

52:51

I think people often

52:53

over like especially in the UK at the moment,

52:55

they overstate or they

52:58

overestimate what impact the party they want

53:00

to win will have on their life

53:02

and they overestimate what

53:05

they think the negative impact of the other party

53:07

winning. I think it makes a

53:09

little difference. I just don't care anymore. Right. There's no one to

53:11

vote for. There's no one

53:13

with any effective or interesting

53:16

ideas anymore. And as I've gone down that

53:18

kind of libertarian rabbit hole, I actually

53:22

consider most parties now, even if

53:24

they claim to be conservative, they

53:27

have a lot of socialist policies wrapped in them. So

53:30

they can have this brand of conservatism, but

53:32

it's still fairly socialist itself. So there's nothing to vote

53:34

for for me. Nothing of interest.

53:37

Sounds like you need your British Millay to come and wake

53:39

people up and say hey look behind the curtain here. Well

53:41

that's what I think is the most

53:44

interesting thing. That's what we'll get into that. I'm

53:46

gonna talk about this being as a libertarian test

53:48

bed. And I think what

53:50

it is is that I

53:53

think not even just you know

53:56

an Argentina or South America because South America

53:58

itself has a strong history of socialism. But

54:01

it exists now in Europe and I

54:04

think people are realising things are breaking. I

54:07

think there's a sense that things are breaking, yet we

54:09

still just have another election and people are like, well

54:11

the Conservatives are so terrible, let's vote for Labour and

54:13

Labour are going to be terrible. People are going to

54:16

be fed up with them soon. It's this cycle of

54:18

voting for change and never really getting any... things don't

54:20

get better. And so it's

54:22

something drastic has to change. So

54:27

it's a really interesting time, but I know for a certain

54:29

there are going to be Labour supporters who will listen to

54:31

this. And then what do you mean? What are you against

54:33

the Left as far as that? Progressive

54:36

parties are very good. They've done XYZ and I would agree with a

54:38

lot of things they say. I

54:40

think progressive parties over my

54:42

lifetime have done some very good things. But we're

54:44

in a very weird time now where economically

54:47

we're breaking. And

54:51

I don't think any party,

54:53

whether you're Conservative, right-wing, your

54:56

maybe Labour left-wing here, has

54:59

a proper economic plan. Yeah. And

55:02

unfortunately this left-right economy is

55:04

super effective because if

55:07

you want to mobilize, if you want to move

55:09

masses, you've got to think, you've got to

55:11

make it black and white. People

55:13

aren't able. I think I read somewhere like there's only

55:15

30% of all humans who actually have an internal life.

55:19

So people aren't

55:21

able to think for themselves. You

55:23

need to tell them how to think if

55:26

you want to move the masses, right? If

55:28

you really want to have a massive voter

55:30

turnout to come and actually show up because

55:32

more than just you think standing there for

55:34

two hours is super

55:36

ineffective. In order

55:38

for them to actually get out of their couches and stand

55:40

there in line and actually spend those two hours just to

55:42

cast a ballot, they

55:45

need to be motivated from deep within. And

55:47

the only way to motivate from deep within

55:49

is to tickle your emotions, tickle your sensibilities

55:51

on a personal level. So you

55:54

want to do something good. You want to identify with

55:56

somebody who's also doing good. And you want to feel

55:58

like you're part of that group who's doing good. doing

56:00

something good. What was voter turnout? Yeah,

56:02

yeah. But you say black and white,

56:04

essentially, that's what I did. He

56:06

made it black and white. Yeah, exactly. Cut

56:09

through the bullshit. But you know,

56:11

and it's not really good in

56:13

discourse because you there are nuances to

56:15

all things like I consider myself like

56:17

if I was like to list all

56:19

the things that I believe in politically,

56:21

I'm far right. Okay. But

56:24

there's a lot of stuff that I

56:26

disagree with, like the right like I

56:28

think people should be able to let's

56:30

say abortions people. I

56:32

don't like all the focus on religion necessarily like

56:34

they should be you know, you know, should believe

56:36

in whatever you want to believe in. So a

56:38

lot of like right wing things that I don't

56:40

agree with that I think the left is representing.

56:43

But there's no room for that debate. Nobody's

56:45

interested. Well, that's why this left white thing

56:47

is left right thing has become left white.

56:49

That's why this left right things become so

56:51

absurd. You know, once you see it, it's

56:54

a bit like when you first get your

56:56

head around Bitcoin and you understand the difference between

56:58

an inflationary and a non inflationary currency,

57:00

once you see it, you're like, Oh, I get it

57:02

now. This makes sense. This is

57:04

what money should be. Yeah, I think once you

57:07

see, like you see behind the

57:09

curtain, once you see behind the veil of the

57:11

left right politics, you realize the games they're playing.

57:13

Yeah. And you realize how they're trying to mobilize

57:15

you for what they want to do. You just

57:18

realize how absurd it is you become the monk

57:20

that are like elevated and above it all. And

57:22

why so when we were dominant yesterday, when I

57:24

was planning for that, I was reading the interview

57:26

with the Kaylee did with Time magazine. And

57:29

he talked about the history of left right politics. And it

57:32

came from the French Revolution. And it was it was the

57:34

seat in arrangements in in parliament.

57:36

Yeah, that's what it was. And now it's

57:38

become the structure for politics

57:40

globally. But but I,

57:42

I've come to accept this structure

57:46

of government, government, governance and

57:48

democracy itself is

57:51

a good is a good idea. Democracy is

57:53

a good idea. But

57:56

the execution is really bad now is

57:58

the best idea of the worst. Yeah. like Churchill

58:00

said, and I also think

58:02

that democracy, I

58:05

think, you know, democracy were invented in

58:07

a specific place in a specific time

58:09

on this planet. And I

58:11

don't necessarily think that that's necessarily a formula that has

58:13

to be global, because

58:16

I believe in diversity. I don't think we're all

58:18

equal. So some systems,

58:20

they work way better than others,

58:23

you know, and depending on a lot of things. I

58:26

don't think in El Salvador, for example, democracy

58:30

worked. Right.

58:32

I mean, democracy got Bukele elected. But

58:34

in order to reinstate a lot

58:36

of these changes that needs that El Salvador

58:39

needs, maybe democracy is not that

58:41

good. Maybe you need an authoritarian dictator who

58:43

is there for... They stay benevolent. Right. But

58:46

they need to stay 10, 15 years. Right. Same

58:48

with Millet. I hope that he gets

58:50

reelected. So he has at least eight years. And

58:52

you can tell by the way he has moved,

58:55

he's like, I got no time to waste. He

58:58

did something called Denéu, which is

59:00

a need and urgency decree, which is

59:02

basically you can pass some legislation without

59:05

necessarily the approval of Congress, which, by

59:07

the way, is

59:10

a place that doesn't have much support. Right. Because

59:13

he won the election, but he doesn't have a

59:15

particularly large party. Do you want to explain that?

59:18

I don't know too much about that. Right. Okay.

59:21

So he doesn't have any seats in Congress of

59:23

people from his party that will be able to

59:25

vote in his favor. And a

59:27

couple of things that he wanted to pass,

59:30

the vice president had to veto in order to

59:32

get some of that. So it was like this

59:34

close. It was like a big, big pushback from

59:36

the opposition. So basically he doesn't have

59:39

support in Congress and he

59:41

realizes that he needs to do drastic

59:43

stuff because in

59:45

2016, there was a president called Mauricio

59:47

Macchi, ex-president of Boca Jr.

59:50

He became a political animal and won

59:53

the presidency. He was kind of like neoliberal

59:55

on the right. Like some of the, he

59:57

shares some ideas with Millet, but

59:59

he was. He wanted to do it gradually, like

1:00:02

gradualism. And that ended up being terrible and

1:00:04

he only had one term. He got ousted

1:00:06

by the Peronist after four years. So

1:00:08

I don't think Millet, you know, he looks

1:00:10

at that and says, I don't want to do

1:00:12

the same mistake. I'm going to just bulldoze through

1:00:15

everything. I don't care what people say. I'm going

1:00:17

to make these fixes. And then hopefully

1:00:19

four years is enough for people, like for the

1:00:21

majority of the population to understand, hey, these changes

1:00:23

were actually good. I feel better. I have more

1:00:25

money. I have more purchasing power, whatever. And

1:00:28

then they can reelect him. But the

1:00:30

things are like the fixes that is needed in

1:00:33

Argentina and El Salvador too, for that matter, are

1:00:35

so deeply ingrained. You need, I don't

1:00:37

think you need a democratic measure. You need someone like

1:00:40

Millet and Buckella to stay there for 20 years. So,

1:00:43

you know. Yeah, but that becomes tricky. Yeah,

1:00:45

for sure. Because we've

1:00:47

seen that before where we've had

1:00:49

dictators, they've seen like benevolent dictators. And

1:00:51

then when things go wrong, what happens? Happened

1:00:55

with Chavez

1:00:57

in Venezuela, you know, I

1:01:00

mean, I'm not a fan of Chavez or any of

1:01:02

his policies, but he was popular to begin with. And,

1:01:05

you know, he, I don't

1:01:07

know how many terms and then moved to Maduro

1:01:09

and like Venezuela has been absolutely fucking decimated as

1:01:11

a country. Happened in Bolivia. Is

1:01:15

the Argentinian constitution two terms? Yeah,

1:01:18

two terms. Right. Okay. And so the

1:01:20

fear is that, yeah, he has a

1:01:22

successful first term. He

1:01:24

does get reelected, has another successful term. Then

1:01:26

what comes next? Right. The parents are waiting,

1:01:29

you know, they're waiting for their

1:01:31

turn to come back. And then they all

1:01:33

just going to go back to the same formula, the

1:01:35

vicious cycle of like, hey, we

1:01:37

have these political organizations,

1:01:40

these ONGs, these whatever

1:01:42

public companies that we are allied with.

1:01:45

And we're going to just spend money

1:01:47

again, open the money printer

1:01:50

and give them money for their political alliance. Is

1:01:53

this with evil within ideology that

1:01:55

exists then in that you

1:01:59

have been like, could have. successful two terms. He

1:02:01

could change the course of history of Argentina. He

1:02:03

could restructure

1:02:06

the economy. Argentina could head

1:02:08

into growth. People could feel

1:02:10

better, feel richer, you

1:02:12

know, feel they've got more wealth. And

1:02:15

then another party would win

1:02:17

an election and come in with their

1:02:19

old school ideology and re-destroy that even though

1:02:22

they themselves would visually see, they

1:02:24

could see all the metrics, see all the measures,

1:02:26

they would go back and destroy that. Yeah, that

1:02:28

like it's a cancer. Like Mille said, they're

1:02:31

never satisfied. You can't give them an inch.

1:02:33

They will bite off the whole arm, right?

1:02:35

That's what Mille is essentially saying about the

1:02:38

socialist movement. It's like, it's never enough. You

1:02:41

want to, if you're in, like

1:02:44

you get comfortable with anything in life, right? You

1:02:46

get used to anything. You get to a position

1:02:48

of power. At some time you will

1:02:50

get used to it and you want something more. You want something

1:02:52

more. That thing is like ingrained

1:02:54

in human nature. And

1:02:57

for socialism, that is, that

1:02:59

both is very bad for people living under a

1:03:01

regime like that because they just want more and

1:03:03

more and more. So what are the key policies

1:03:06

that Mille has implemented since he's been in

1:03:08

power? What are the key wins he's had?

1:03:10

I think off the top of my head,

1:03:12

you know, he came in wanting to fix

1:03:14

two things. One

1:03:16

is just curb inflation and

1:03:18

then fix the insecurity. So

1:03:21

inflation is curbed. I

1:03:24

mean, if you look at the monthly inflation, you'll see like 4% inflation, stuff like

1:03:26

that is pretty

1:03:31

good. But on the yearly, it's still up there

1:03:33

because it's just a lot. I mean, he inherited

1:03:37

15% of GDP in fiscal deficit.

1:03:40

So I think he needs

1:03:42

to like get 20 billion just to be broke.

1:03:45

It's like insane. 4% is

1:03:48

manageable inflation. Yeah. I mean, considering, you know,

1:03:50

what people have gone through, definitely. It's like

1:03:52

super strong currency all of a sudden, right?

1:03:54

And then he has stopped

1:03:56

a lot of the public spending, the frivolous

1:03:58

spending. He cut off. of that. And

1:04:02

he... Do

1:04:05

you know how he curved inflation? Well,

1:04:08

he stopped all the public spending. There

1:04:10

was a large part of the budget

1:04:12

and I think it's like 1-2% of

1:04:15

GDP was only public money

1:04:18

to these schools, educations, universities,

1:04:21

media, I mean you name

1:04:23

it. Everything that the parents

1:04:25

had had got cut off.

1:04:27

So you saw protests in

1:04:29

the streets from journalists, from

1:04:32

people that were working in these

1:04:34

like, I don't know, diversity and

1:04:36

equality offices, like totally useless governmental

1:04:39

bodies that did absolutely nothing and

1:04:41

just received money. A lot

1:04:43

of these organizations, 90%

1:04:46

of the budget that they had from the

1:04:48

money that they came went to salaries, that's

1:04:50

it. Then they used 5-10% to actually building

1:04:52

stuff or stuff like that. Were

1:04:54

these organic protests or were these paid protests? Because

1:04:56

I know when I was there they would bus

1:04:59

protesters in. Yeah, and they take your name

1:05:02

and your ID number. It's like they

1:05:04

have a roll call when you step

1:05:06

outside the bus. And if

1:05:08

your name is not on that list, you don't receive

1:05:10

your social plan. So a lot

1:05:12

of these things are paid for. It's just

1:05:15

optics, just to say, oh, you know, we

1:05:17

rallied a bunch of people against Millay. There's

1:05:19

a big cohort of people who

1:05:21

are against Millay and they're just paid for. And

1:05:24

there's a thank you for the internet because

1:05:26

you have a lot of YouTubers who go to these protests

1:05:29

and they're like, why are you here? And

1:05:31

the answers that they get is absolutely insane.

1:05:33

They're like, oh, somebody told me, my cousin,

1:05:35

I'm here. I don't know

1:05:37

why. And it's just flat out embarrassing. This

1:05:40

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1:07:53

For all you Aussies out there on

1:07:55

October the 25th and 26th, we're

1:07:58

going to be heading to Sydney and hosting a live event.

1:08:00

in our second cheat code conference for

1:08:02

our friends down there. We have

1:08:04

an incredible set of speakers coming, including

1:08:06

the legend Preston Pish, James Lavish, Dylan

1:08:09

Leclerc, Mark Moss, and many, many more.

1:08:12

On Saturday the 26th, we will be mixing it

1:08:14

up and all of our speakers

1:08:17

and attendees will be heading down to the

1:08:19

beach for some surfing, volleyball, and a barbecue.

1:08:21

And we're gonna be heading to a brewery after that for

1:08:24

a pub quiz and some drinks. So

1:08:26

I cannot wait to see all the amazing Bitcoiners we

1:08:28

know down in Sydney, and hopefully you can join us.

1:08:30

Tickets are sending fast. If you're

1:08:32

interested in coming along, please head over

1:08:34

to cheatcode.co.uk, which

1:08:37

is c-h-e-a-t-c-o-d-e.co.uk. I

1:08:42

saw the same, so when I

1:08:44

was in Venezuela, we were driving

1:08:46

around, I think it was West

1:08:49

Caracas, and

1:08:51

we heard this big roar. And

1:08:53

we were on this road and we looked, and this

1:08:55

huge protest march came. Tens of

1:08:57

thousands of people, all in red. And

1:09:01

so we started interviewing people. We found

1:09:03

out the reason people were there is because their social, it

1:09:05

was a requirement for their social handout program. They

1:09:09

would receive a basket of whatever every week, and

1:09:11

to receive that, they had to join the protest,

1:09:13

which is insanity itself. That

1:09:15

is the formula, that is the way.

1:09:19

And it has been completely affected, but now with Millet,

1:09:21

now he has put a stop to all of that.

1:09:23

And you gotta figure it out, man. There's

1:09:26

no more money here. If you want money,

1:09:28

you need to have a profitable business. Find

1:09:30

a way. Gotta be productive. Gotta be productive.

1:09:32

Gotta produce value for other people. So

1:09:34

has that curve been of inflation? Has that

1:09:36

seen investment coming back into Argentina? Yeah, I

1:09:39

mean, I don't know. I

1:09:41

mean, there's definitely signal there, like Elon

1:09:43

saying, okay, I'm considering maybe opening

1:09:46

a Tesla factory in Argentina, stuff

1:09:48

like that. But I think things

1:09:51

are still very unstable, and

1:09:53

people need to see that the stability is

1:09:55

here and doesn't go away very

1:09:57

easily. And I think that is also

1:09:59

the... The second thing that I want to highlight that Millet has done

1:10:01

well is just insecurity. Like

1:10:04

Rosario is one of the major cities

1:10:06

in Argentina and it's like straight

1:10:09

up like, I don't

1:10:11

know, Medellin in the 80s, right?

1:10:13

Like so many homicides, so many murders.

1:10:15

Murder rate is absolutely crazy. Millet

1:10:18

went in with a hard hand, gave more

1:10:21

police presence, more budget to the military

1:10:24

police as well, and homicides are down 70% in nine

1:10:26

months. That's

1:10:28

amazing. And then I think

1:10:30

like cocaine busts is also up like 400%

1:10:32

as well. So they're

1:10:35

really like tackling a

1:10:38

huge deal of insecurity. Every

1:10:40

time I go back to Argentina, like I always have

1:10:42

this conversation with my mom, like what do I wear?

1:10:45

Can I bring a Nike shoe or should

1:10:47

I just go with like some other off-brand

1:10:49

stuff, just like not get people's attention? And

1:10:52

it's never like, okay, you can wear exactly what

1:10:54

you wear in the UK or Norway or Spain

1:10:56

in Argentina. Like you got to switch your

1:10:58

wardrobe just to like not get

1:11:02

attention from people who want to just snatch them. So

1:11:05

these two things, violence

1:11:08

and economic stability is

1:11:10

something that Millet focused on right away and he

1:11:12

has done a great job, honestly. There's a pattern

1:11:14

with that though. It's the same what Bukele did

1:11:16

in El Salvador. Change

1:11:19

security there. I remember when

1:11:21

I made a film out in El Salvador, what

1:11:24

interview really stood out where some of the, you

1:11:26

got these areas called red zones. The

1:11:28

guy was saying, you just can't use your mobile phone. You wouldn't use your

1:11:30

mobile phone because it'd be snatched off you. And

1:11:33

he said, the big changes now, I can walk the street, I can make

1:11:35

a phone call. I don't have to worry about somebody coming up and snatching

1:11:37

my phone. There's no gangs roaming the streets.

1:11:40

And it's an interesting thing. Even today, I was

1:11:42

looking on my Twitter

1:11:44

and I saw a video, you've got these gangs that go

1:11:46

around on bicycles around London. They see somebody on the phone,

1:11:48

they cycle past, they snatch off. And

1:11:51

I would say, this

1:11:53

is purely anecdotally,

1:11:55

my

1:11:58

perception is that people are working I'm worried

1:12:00

about the security in places like the UK now. I

1:12:02

mean... I wouldn't wear my

1:12:04

watch through London. Right? I mean, you literally didn't, did

1:12:06

you? No, I put it in my bag. He put

1:12:09

his watch in his bag because people are... There

1:12:11

are gangs that go to restaurants, they have spotters,

1:12:13

they see who's there, who's wearing a watch, they

1:12:15

tell people outside to wait for them, and

1:12:18

then they'll snatch their phone. Or they'll stab you

1:12:20

and take your phone. One guy who was stabbed

1:12:22

had his phone... Sorry, his watch taken. It was

1:12:24

a fake. Yeah. Wow. And that happens a lot.

1:12:26

And these are happening more and more, you hear about it all the time

1:12:29

at the moment. London only or is

1:12:31

it spread out? London only. Well, not London only,

1:12:33

but definitely London is worse than anywhere else in

1:12:35

the UK. You don't hear about it really anywhere

1:12:37

else. I'm sure it happens. There's a Twitter account,

1:12:39

I follow, for London. It's like a London crime

1:12:41

one. And I mean, it's daily...

1:12:44

I mean, I wonder if I could find it

1:12:46

and actually tell you. Just give you an example

1:12:48

of what it's like on this thing. Let

1:12:50

me have a look. Yeah,

1:12:54

I mean, when they know they can get away

1:12:56

with it, you know, that's

1:12:58

the incentive. So here we

1:13:00

go. Five minutes ago, a man has been rushed to

1:13:02

hospital after being stabbed on New Kent Road yesterday evening.

1:13:05

Second shooting incident last night, Woolwich Mail

1:13:07

Hospitalised Condition to be updated. Damn. Yep.

1:13:11

A murder investigation launched. Reports of a shooting last

1:13:13

night nearby Mozart Estate.

1:13:17

Reports of a shooting in Woolwich last night. Colorado

1:13:21

mum who was fighting extradition from Britain to the

1:13:23

United States allegedly drugged her children, told them to

1:13:25

close her eyes before fatally shooting and stabbing two

1:13:27

of them. What? This is absolutely

1:13:29

insane. This is the phone thief. Watch this. See

1:13:32

that? Dude. Yeah.

1:13:34

That is wild. So... And this stuff's

1:13:37

always happening in London, but it seems to be getting

1:13:39

worse. Yeah, a lot worse. It seems to be, one,

1:13:41

there's this rise in crime, but there's kind of like

1:13:43

a rise in people

1:13:45

who just don't give a shit about law

1:13:47

and order. But I think because law and

1:13:50

order, it becomes so soft. Yeah, exactly. Oh,

1:13:52

no, if you steal something that's under 400

1:13:54

bucks or whatever, that's fine. OK, go. And

1:13:57

like you have like 25 people snatching

1:13:59

something. for $3.99 each. And

1:14:01

then you have like a gang that just, you

1:14:03

know, resells a lot of these items and like

1:14:05

live off that comfortably. It's,

1:14:07

um, yeah, one of the things

1:14:09

we were talking about when we were changing this podcast

1:14:11

up is that, uh, how

1:14:14

quickly it like, if it's just say it's successful,

1:14:16

say, you know, we had some cut through, people

1:14:18

start listening to it. How quickly do we

1:14:20

get, uh, classes far,

1:14:23

right? Yeah. Just for

1:14:25

questioning these things, just say, look, we want

1:14:27

a bit more law and order. Yeah. We

1:14:29

think law and order is a good thing.

1:14:31

Some more conservative politics. Oh, you're far right.

1:14:34

Yeah. That's, you know, you know,

1:14:36

it's a careful balance. We're gonna, we're gonna have to balance,

1:14:38

careful balance. We're gonna have to strike with this. But

1:14:40

I think, I think

1:14:42

we're not far behind the US. I know people

1:14:44

living in California, Seattle, Portland, they're

1:14:47

hugely concerned with homeless nurse and crime.

1:14:49

They're two big issues that have seemed

1:14:51

to have got our hand. And I

1:14:53

feel like that's coming here. And then

1:14:56

I hear what you're saying

1:14:58

in Argentina. And I'm like, well, why,

1:15:00

why is the Maryland city calm? Why isn't

1:15:02

the ultra focused on this? Why is he

1:15:04

not ultra focused on crime? Yeah. Right. Yeah.

1:15:06

And if they've got all this money, why

1:15:08

aren't they putting money into these inner city,

1:15:10

uh, you know, uh, ghettos that have essentially

1:15:12

built up where people are, uh, they've got

1:15:14

no other option but to join a gang

1:15:16

to protect themselves. Cause there are, I do

1:15:18

have some empathy there. Yeah. Uh, you know,

1:15:21

when you look into this issue of gangs in

1:15:23

London, you've got a lot

1:15:25

of, uh, kids who are from

1:15:28

fatherless homes, uh, a lot

1:15:30

of kids who, uh, say they have to carry

1:15:32

a knife because it's so risky

1:15:34

for them late at night to be attacked and

1:15:36

chase and they joined gangs for protection. Right. I

1:15:38

also, I mean, thanks to some, just to have

1:15:41

some kind of identity to come to the policy.

1:15:43

This, these inner city issues exist with a

1:15:45

complete lack of investment. There's nothing for these

1:15:47

kids to do. True. You know, you, you

1:15:49

maybe got some of these, uh, football

1:15:52

five side course that exists, but

1:15:55

so I can see both sides of it,

1:15:57

but the security thing, obviously. The

1:16:00

thing I noticed, I've not been to London for probably six

1:16:02

months, and even then it was for a day, so it's

1:16:04

been a while since I've actually spent some time in London,

1:16:06

and it's the first time I've seen tents. Yeah.

1:16:10

Where did you see those? So I walked from Euston

1:16:12

to here, and whatever the main road was that I

1:16:15

walked along, there was one area in particular where there

1:16:17

was probably a group of 15 tents. I've

1:16:19

not seen that. I've seen a lot of homelessness, but

1:16:21

there's always been a lot of homelessness. But somebody put it

1:16:24

up the other day, it was in Mayfair the other

1:16:26

day, which is the first time I've seen that. But

1:16:28

we had in Bedford where I lived. You

1:16:30

know, we had our conference in Bedford. So

1:16:33

the morning I turn up to the venue, there's a guy getting

1:16:35

out of a tent outside the venue. I'd never seen a tent

1:16:37

in Bedford. Now, look, again,

1:16:40

this isn't some kind of middle-crosser, like the big

1:16:42

old tent, it's a signal of the decline in

1:16:44

society. People are struggling that they have to go

1:16:46

and live in tents. We

1:16:48

know there's enough money out there, but if you destroy

1:16:50

an economy and people have nowhere to live, where are

1:16:52

they going to go? You

1:16:55

know, and my wife is

1:16:57

Persian Canadian from the

1:16:59

West Coast from Vancouver. We lived there.

1:17:02

And in 2021, we had to just get

1:17:04

away. We couldn't live in Canada anymore neither because

1:17:06

Vancouver was getting that. And also the fentanyl problem

1:17:08

and all that, it was like tents everywhere. But

1:17:11

also they come, you know, people from, you

1:17:14

know, everywhere in Canada, they come

1:17:16

to Vancouver because they know there's

1:17:18

like rehab centers or there's social

1:17:20

plants available if I have a

1:17:22

registered residency in Vancouver. So, you

1:17:24

know, this is a

1:17:26

four-block area where

1:17:28

it's kind of decriminalized in Vancouver

1:17:30

and you can go and get

1:17:32

your needle exchange and you've got a safe place to

1:17:34

take you to the north side. Yeah, I think it's

1:17:36

like a de facto decriminalized area. But yeah, it's like

1:17:38

it's called Downtown Eastside, Hastings Street

1:17:41

up in there. Yeah. Okay. Are you using it

1:17:43

for yourself? Yeah, it's fucked up. It's

1:17:45

just incredible. And like

1:17:47

I say, it's a signal of like, okay, this is the

1:17:49

start of something and you got

1:17:52

to react. But the thing is, if you want to

1:17:54

react, like you said, you are labeled as a far-right

1:17:56

extremist because the people who are

1:17:58

more on the left-leaning side, they

1:18:00

tap into the being

1:18:03

good. I want to be a good

1:18:05

person. Oh, they steal because they're poor. You

1:18:07

know, they don't have any other opportunity. So

1:18:09

they have to steal. So they justify the

1:18:11

act of theft, which is so

1:18:14

sick. But that's how they think. I've seen that

1:18:16

argument in Argentina and everywhere else as well. So

1:18:18

it's very... I honestly believe most of

1:18:20

these people come from a good place. Yeah. I

1:18:22

just, I think they can't... I think it's like

1:18:24

Millet said in his speech to the world economic

1:18:27

forum. They've just

1:18:29

got a poor framework. Yeah. I believe most

1:18:33

people who've got socialist

1:18:35

ideals or sympathetic ideals, I

1:18:39

do genuinely believe they come from a good place. Yes. And talk

1:18:41

to these people. I think you are a good person. But

1:18:43

your economic framework for this is

1:18:46

fucked. Yeah. It doesn't work. Right.

1:18:48

Totally. And they

1:18:50

are so ingrained in their self-identity.

1:18:54

Like when you start to equate

1:18:56

these beliefs or these ideologies with

1:18:58

your own self-worth and self-identity, that's

1:19:00

when your loss cause. Because you

1:19:02

will never change your mind. The

1:19:05

sunk cost fallacy is just way

1:19:08

too far at that point. And there's a

1:19:10

branding issue. So I don't know if you

1:19:12

know in the UK, the Conservatives, or the

1:19:14

also called Tories. Yes. Okay. And being a

1:19:17

Tory is a pejorative really, isn't it? Okay.

1:19:19

You'll see it if you go on, if

1:19:21

you join Tinder or Bumble, it's like don't

1:19:23

swipe me if you're a Tory. So

1:19:26

there's no world where they can ever go, I

1:19:28

would be conservative. Because they think

1:19:31

of the conservative. What would you say? That would

1:19:33

be like the Eton elites, be

1:19:35

kind of like the Tory group.

1:19:37

Yeah. It's seen as elite, privileged,

1:19:41

old money, like posh, tough kind of

1:19:43

person. Yeah. But there's this whole,

1:19:46

I think, grouping of people, which is

1:19:48

a large middle class, which is being

1:19:51

screwed right now, that I think

1:19:53

are kind of trapped between the two. Because the the

1:19:56

Conservative Party wasn't particularly conservative, and

1:19:59

the Labour Party, I mean, I

1:20:02

think both parties have been essentially destroying the middle

1:20:04

class. Yeah, for sure. And

1:20:06

so I think these people are trapped not knowing what to

1:20:08

vote for. But trying

1:20:11

to get to a place where, you know,

1:20:13

I have real sympathies with

1:20:15

certain socially progressive ideas. I'm

1:20:18

definitely not a conservative with

1:20:21

social ideas, but I'm definitely more

1:20:23

conservative on the economic side. But

1:20:26

trying to get to a place

1:20:28

where you can explain the economic

1:20:30

framework and the policies and

1:20:32

why more conservative policies are actually better

1:20:35

for the poorest inside, the people you

1:20:37

want to help. Trying

1:20:41

to wrap that up and explain that to people and put it

1:20:43

into a nice little package so they don't

1:20:45

go, oh, you're a Tory or I'm not going to be

1:20:47

a Tory. That's a real challenge in the

1:20:49

whole environment. It is. It is. And man, communism,

1:20:52

socialism, whatever flavor that you want

1:20:54

to pick and label it has

1:20:56

been stupendous

1:20:59

and branding, messaging, communication,

1:21:02

design. They

1:21:04

just killing the game. And

1:21:06

the thing about the right leaning things is

1:21:08

just it's usually a reaction to when the

1:21:11

left gets a little bit out of control.

1:21:13

So it's more like a reactionary thing. So

1:21:15

and that always becomes like a more like

1:21:17

improvised knee jerk reaction to things. And that's

1:21:20

always a little bit like chaotic and disorganized.

1:21:23

So that's that's a that's a huge issue, I

1:21:25

think. If somebody like Mille can

1:21:27

come and put a lot of these ideas, package

1:21:30

it in a nice way that

1:21:32

is bite sized, digestible in

1:21:35

a framework that works, then

1:21:37

yeah, totally. Because I think it's like,

1:21:40

you know, we can all agree on the problems,

1:21:42

but then we have to fight about

1:21:44

the solution. It's like Bitcoin, right? Like Bitcoiners

1:21:46

and gold bucks, they know exactly what the problem

1:21:48

is, but they have different solutions. They want to

1:21:51

go a different direction. That's just the way it

1:21:53

is. Yeah, it's hard

1:21:55

assets at the end. I mean, like

1:21:58

you said, it might have been olive oil in Argentina. It

1:22:01

can be bricks, it's a hard asset, this

1:22:03

money. Back to Millet. So security

1:22:06

is one issue you said he solved,

1:22:09

or is solving, and inflation is another

1:22:11

one he's solving. Our

1:22:14

conversation came from a Twitter post where

1:22:16

somebody said about Millet as in rent

1:22:18

controls and housing regulations. The result, housing

1:22:20

supply is up 212%. Rental

1:22:23

prices are down 26%, mortgage

1:22:25

costs are down 30%. It

1:22:28

would be good to work through why that policy

1:22:31

led to those results. Well, he

1:22:33

basically did a bunch of reforms

1:22:35

that in essence is just let's

1:22:37

strip, let's cut out the middleman,

1:22:39

let's cut out all the

1:22:42

public intervention in these markets and let the

1:22:44

market do its own thing. By

1:22:47

stripping out taxes, by

1:22:49

stripping out the levies, by not being so

1:22:51

interventionist when it comes to imports and

1:22:53

exports. All of that, and

1:22:55

you just let people who are owners of the

1:22:57

assets that want to put it on the market

1:23:00

and have the market

1:23:03

say what the price should be. That's

1:23:05

a beautiful mechanism that works if you

1:23:07

give enough breathing space. That's

1:23:10

exactly what Millet did, and that's why more

1:23:13

people are like, okay, I can actually put

1:23:15

my apartment out for rent because I'm not

1:23:17

getting killed by taxes, all the

1:23:19

crazy regulations that it just makes a headache

1:23:21

to actually rent it out. And

1:23:24

people, because of all the regulations, they just

1:23:26

think, I might as well just keep

1:23:28

my house empty. It's easier for

1:23:30

me, less headaches for me. But if

1:23:33

you put a place that makes

1:23:35

it attractive for owners to

1:23:37

put it out on the market, they'll do it, obviously.

1:23:40

So that's it. Has the brain drain

1:23:42

reversed toward people heading back toward? I

1:23:45

think a lot of people who are on Twitter and

1:23:47

they've seen these things, they get very hyped up and

1:23:49

then they go back. People went

1:23:51

to El Salvador because of what they saw online. So

1:23:54

I've seen some chatter about that. I

1:23:56

don't know if these people are totally like, okay,

1:23:59

I'm here for life. But they have there's

1:24:01

some people who have made the move but it's still too

1:24:03

early in the game Yeah, I need to give it more

1:24:05

time, but I will be include myself. Honestly, I would like

1:24:07

in a beep to go back I would love to go

1:24:09

back. Yeah and bring my wife

1:24:12

and everybody what's been the public reaction to

1:24:14

Malay now? He's been in power. It's not

1:24:16

a year Nine months nine months.

1:24:18

Yeah, what's the public reaction been so far? I'm

1:24:21

there must be a range of course there's enemies

1:24:23

but generally speaking the public reaction I think

1:24:26

everybody's happy those who voted from the lay

1:24:28

are still happy Okay, those who didn't vote

1:24:30

from the lay want me layouts So

1:24:32

it's a status quo in that regard, but the important thing

1:24:34

is those who voted from the lay They don't feel like

1:24:37

being defrauded or anything like that. No,

1:24:39

they are super happy and I

1:24:41

don't know This is a small sample size. It's always

1:24:44

anecdotal But like this a thing all

1:24:46

the biggest TV channels they go out and they

1:24:48

do interviews of people random people They stop on

1:24:50

the streets. Well, sometimes not that

1:24:52

random sometimes actually orchestrated a

1:24:55

lot of people Even even

1:24:57

even you know say Cinco Anna, which is

1:24:59

like the Kirshner is channel They do these

1:25:01

interviews on the streets and there's

1:25:03

a lot of people who are like be wobbly But

1:25:05

be wobbly lay, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna vote

1:25:07

for him again and they get caught

1:25:09

like off guard because they they're always like

1:25:14

Saying Saying things like okay.

1:25:16

What do you think about Malay cutting down?

1:25:19

You know support for pensionists, which is something that he

1:25:21

did right that was like part of the public plan

1:25:23

It was some controversy around that so they lead with

1:25:25

these questions hoping to get a negative answer And they're

1:25:27

like, I don't care. Malay is doing good things and

1:25:29

they're like wonderful. Okay, where do we go from here?

1:25:32

So there's a lot of good good feedback from

1:25:34

the those who voted from the way because if

1:25:36

you asking about pension

1:25:38

reform essentially, yeah, that's uh, you're

1:25:41

asking about like a macro

1:25:43

detail, but They're

1:25:45

not being sucked into these arguments because they're looking

1:25:47

at the net picture Yeah, and I think it's

1:25:50

like they They

1:25:52

are like in in Argentine internet

1:25:54

culture. They are called Miller intellectuals.

1:25:57

Listen, electronic the miller Miller

1:25:59

is just a It became a meme because somebody

1:26:01

said Miller instead of Millet. So he's like the

1:26:03

Miller intellectuals, which is this voter

1:26:05

base. And I think they have

1:26:08

understood like the things that Millet has communicated

1:26:11

to them before the election happened, which made them

1:26:13

vote for him. These ideas,

1:26:16

they stuck with them. So

1:26:18

when they see these reforms happening, they know

1:26:20

that it's part of a plan that Millet

1:26:22

has been very vocal about and very transparent

1:26:24

about. And I think they like that. You

1:26:26

know, so who've been the losers on

1:26:28

the Millet? Obviously, a large

1:26:31

percentage of people who work in government because he's made

1:26:34

government smaller. I'm

1:26:36

assuming there are union

1:26:39

leaders. Big time. Yeah. I

1:26:41

mean, I was told about this once. I

1:26:43

got to Buenos Aires. I

1:26:46

was with the Gia de Juan. Loro?

1:26:48

Yeah. Yeah. So he took me around. He said

1:26:50

they were relaying the road. He's like, they relay

1:26:52

this road every year. Like what? He said, yeah,

1:26:55

just to keep people in jobs. So obviously union

1:26:57

leaders. He said, what will happen is they pay

1:26:59

the union leader. He gets

1:27:01

a nice, greasy palm and he can

1:27:03

keep all his laborers

1:27:05

in work. That

1:27:07

that kind of work would fall away. So I'm assuming

1:27:10

I'm assuming they are

1:27:12

losers. And I'm assuming some of

1:27:14

the the lower end of the economic

1:27:16

class lost out because

1:27:18

they're not having their social handouts. Have

1:27:23

I got that? I summarize that correctly. Are there

1:27:25

others? Yeah. You should see the receipts for all

1:27:27

these like public Oda Publica. What

1:27:29

is it called? Oda Publica is like it's

1:27:33

kind of like a like a like a Buddhist chant

1:27:35

that you just like Oda Publica, Oda Publica.

1:27:37

People are just so brainwashing. Like it's so

1:27:39

important that the state build the roads and

1:27:42

build all the infrastructure without the state building

1:27:44

infrastructure. We're doomed. And

1:27:46

what they do, like they do everywhere. They they

1:27:48

hire third party. They they they hire consultants and

1:27:50

stuff like that. And you should see those receipts

1:27:52

when they when they leak to the media. Like

1:27:55

they they buy stuff and it's just like 10

1:27:58

extra price because. In

1:28:00

that receipt, a lot of filtration

1:28:03

is happening into

1:28:05

the greasy palms. So that

1:28:07

was a racket, big time

1:28:09

racket, the syndicates, the unions,

1:28:13

huge racket. But these are like things that

1:28:15

you think about, like these are things from the 30s, man. This

1:28:18

is like antiquated models that shouldn't exist in

1:28:20

2024. And it's like a mafia

1:28:22

model, to be honest. It's literally like, hey, I'm

1:28:24

giving you this money and you do as I

1:28:26

say, or I'll just send it out like, I

1:28:28

don't know, an inspector and close down your business

1:28:30

type of thing. That

1:28:33

happened to my dad when he was in the

1:28:35

restaurant business too, with the police coming and they wanted

1:28:37

to sell drugs through his restaurant.

1:28:39

They said, we are here. You're going

1:28:41

to do what we say, or we

1:28:43

shut you down using monopoly of violence.

1:28:47

And so in all levels that happened. And Millet came in

1:28:49

and said, it's over. I'm cutting all

1:28:52

of this out, which is a huge expenditure,

1:28:54

by the way, but also a lot of

1:28:56

people, depending on that. And

1:28:58

that's it. So

1:29:00

that got a bad reaction, obviously.

1:29:04

But what's beautiful is like they organize

1:29:06

these like paid protests with thousands of

1:29:08

people and they'll age is like puts

1:29:10

a bunch of police and like, you

1:29:12

can't block the streets. You can

1:29:14

protest, but do it in a public square. Don't

1:29:17

block because that's another thing with Argentina. They love

1:29:19

to block the streets and cause a huge inconvenience

1:29:21

just to like really get the

1:29:23

word out. And he's like,

1:29:25

it's over. Okay, go over there. You can you're free

1:29:27

to protest, but that's it. I don't care. But

1:29:30

in police, cut out all these

1:29:32

police spending. And that's that's that's I

1:29:34

think is the main catalyst for

1:29:36

this for this change right now, which I think if he

1:29:38

if he's able to keep it up and

1:29:41

you know, maybe dollarized, that's another thing that

1:29:43

he also wanted to do. It

1:29:46

will get better. What are the fair

1:29:49

criticisms or what are the most public most fair

1:29:51

criticism that been labeled

1:29:54

as policies? What's failed? What's he not done that he

1:29:56

said he would do? I don't think

1:29:58

it's at least from what I've heard. It's

1:30:00

not related to the actual policies because they

1:30:02

still need some time to kick in but

1:30:04

I think the biggest Criticism

1:30:06

with Millet is like the way he approaches

1:30:09

things So like I you

1:30:11

know, we already said that he doesn't have support at the Congress

1:30:14

because he's very Confrontational, right?

1:30:16

He's very like you do as I

1:30:18

say or else, you know, we're done

1:30:20

and he has fired people Internally from

1:30:22

his party who didn't like obey, you

1:30:25

know his orders whatever and

1:30:27

so he's a very controversial figure And I think you know when you are

1:30:29

a politician you are in

1:30:31

the game of making compromises making

1:30:33

deals And he seems to

1:30:35

like not give a shit and have

1:30:37

absolutely no compromise with anybody and that could

1:30:40

bite him in the ass I think because

1:30:42

when reelection comes There

1:30:44

might be people that quit the party

1:30:46

and start their own party, you know, like they

1:30:49

he's not very good at keeping people In

1:30:51

the party loyal to him. He's like on a

1:30:54

one-man show in a way He's also

1:30:56

fought with the vice president as well. And that

1:30:58

I think is a fair criticism that he needs

1:31:00

to be more diplomatic more More

1:31:02

of a politician But

1:31:06

that's that's the game you got to play though, right

1:31:08

you can't go to a football Court

1:31:11

and play with basketball rules. So you gotta

1:31:13

you gotta adapt to that and he's not

1:31:15

good at that, but he's still popular. Yeah

1:31:19

For sure and the term itself

1:31:21

is it's four-year terms. Yes Hmm What's

1:31:25

gonna be interesting I mean like I say the

1:31:27

thing that I'm most interested in this is a

1:31:29

libertarian test This is the test of everything

1:31:32

we've spoken about for the last seven years

1:31:34

in making Podcasts we've been going

1:31:36

out and I didn't know anything of libertarianism

1:31:38

when I started the podcast I don't think

1:31:40

I'd even heard of it and and and

1:31:42

slowly got Introduced

1:31:44

to new ideas. Mm-hmm and you know learned about

1:31:47

it become appreciative of it I still think it

1:31:49

needs to be a political movement to be effective.

1:31:51

Yes But this

1:31:53

is a real test now it is and

1:31:55

what I wonder is Will

1:31:58

we see? Well, we

1:32:00

see other libertarians rise to

1:32:03

power quickly. We

1:32:05

had here in the UK, it's not libertarian, but

1:32:07

we had a very quick rise of something called

1:32:09

the Reform Party. They took what, over 20% of

1:32:11

the vote? That's Nigel Farage,

1:32:13

right? Yeah. Yeah. And

1:32:15

he's really a bit of a populist. He's

1:32:19

a populist, but he's not particularly popular in

1:32:21

that a lot of people

1:32:24

are angry with him for Brexit, felt

1:32:27

they were lied to, feels like

1:32:30

he stokes division and hate, but

1:32:33

they went from nothing,

1:32:36

is it 20%? I've not got the

1:32:38

exact number. Yeah, but to about 20% of the

1:32:40

vote very quickly. So it can happen. Yeah. You

1:32:43

can break down these structures of traditional

1:32:45

parties. And I wonder if,

1:32:48

because I feel like, I

1:32:51

feel, I don't know if it's similar in Australia, Danny,

1:32:53

but I feel like here people

1:32:55

need something new. It's like,

1:32:57

like I said, you got some people,

1:32:59

I can't vote Tory. Yeah. Yeah,

1:33:02

people are completely disillusioned with the entire system. So something

1:33:04

new is like the shiny thing that you can potentially

1:33:06

vote for. And I think a lot of people who

1:33:08

have gone voted for Labour because it was so fed

1:33:10

up with the Conservative Party. Well, the votes turn out,

1:33:12

you asked me before, it was 60%, which

1:33:15

is basically the lowest since like 1918. In

1:33:18

2001, it was about the same. How much of a drop,

1:33:20

is it a significant drop from the previous election? Yeah, it

1:33:22

was up around 70. So it's like

1:33:25

a reasonable drop. It's nearly 20% drop. What's

1:33:27

that? 16% drop? Yeah.

1:33:30

Oof, that's basically. But I always think this should

1:33:32

be like a minimum turnout. Like if you don't

1:33:34

get, say 75% of people turning out to vote,

1:33:36

then it's scratch, go again in a week. Yeah,

1:33:39

I don't know. I like, because

1:33:41

you said in Australia, you have to vote right legally. Yeah,

1:33:43

but I don't like that rule. Yeah, but do you have

1:33:45

to pick someone or you just have to turn up? You

1:33:47

have to turn up. No, you can spoil your vote still,

1:33:50

yeah. Yeah. But I like the idea

1:33:52

of having a certain threshold that you have to

1:33:55

reach in order for the vote to count, because if

1:33:57

you mandate people to vote, you never know what they

1:33:59

act like. Totally. I have to vote. Yeah.

1:34:01

I mean, I think mandating voting, I

1:34:03

think it's ridiculous. But if you get

1:34:05

a six-pounder population, is it really a

1:34:07

fair result? The way it is

1:34:09

right now, if this continues, it's going to be like

1:34:11

a thousand people are going to vote. And then you

1:34:14

got, you know, 60 people, 600

1:34:16

people, and then that's it. You

1:34:18

win. That's incredible. I wonder if

1:34:20

the low voter turnout is widespread

1:34:23

disillusion or it's perhaps... They're

1:34:25

just new tourism. The Labour are going

1:34:27

to win. Yeah, or just people like...

1:34:29

I just... I

1:34:32

can't re-vote Conservative and

1:34:34

I'm not voting for Labour and I'm not a champagne

1:34:37

socialist. I'm not going to vote... And just that I

1:34:39

can't vote. I just wonder if everyone knew that Labour

1:34:41

were going to win. So what's the point in turning

1:34:43

up? Because the last one, 2001 was very low and

1:34:45

that's when Tony Blair was elected, wasn't it? And everyone

1:34:47

knew Labour were going to win then. Yeah, perhaps. I

1:34:49

wonder if it's just apathy.

1:34:51

I don't know. Yeah, I just... I

1:34:54

think there are going to be people who have... I

1:34:56

totally understand why people focus on it.

1:34:58

The party was terrible. Yeah. And

1:35:00

they had a long run too, right? Like 13, 14 years. But

1:35:03

they had... But

1:35:08

whatever, whatever. I think though, not to be

1:35:10

like totally black-pilled here, but I think that

1:35:12

maybe things need to get worse before people

1:35:14

actually react. I agree. You see one tent

1:35:16

here, but maybe you'll react when you see

1:35:18

500 tents in the same spot.

1:35:20

But that's the point is that things

1:35:23

are getting worse and I think they are going to get

1:35:25

much worse. And I think people who

1:35:28

couldn't vote conservative or used to vote conservative,

1:35:31

voted Labour, I think are

1:35:33

very quickly realising they're all so terrible. Yeah. You

1:35:35

know, things are going to get a lot worse

1:35:37

under Labour. And we just have

1:35:39

no new ideas. All

1:35:42

the ideas are baked in. More

1:35:44

bureaucracy, more taxation, more

1:35:47

inflation, more

1:35:50

social justice, all the things that

1:35:52

just have not worked for the

1:35:54

last two decades here, Europe,

1:35:58

any Western liberal democracy that... completely failing

1:36:00

everyone and seeing this be

1:36:03

a managed decline in society

1:36:05

and the economic health of a country.

1:36:08

But there's no new ideas. No. Well,

1:36:11

to be frank, Millet's idea is not that new neither, right?

1:36:13

He just repackaged it in a new way, in a modern

1:36:15

way that made sense to a lot of people. I

1:36:18

think they're new in the world of

1:36:20

politics. Oh, yeah. As

1:36:22

a, like you say, package,

1:36:24

but packaged around a party. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's

1:36:26

where it's new. Because like I

1:36:28

said, it has been all academia. You had

1:36:30

to be an intellectual in order to understand

1:36:33

these ideas. It doesn't really reverberate with a

1:36:35

wider society. So it has been like a

1:36:37

fringe ideology. And to be honest, libertarians are

1:36:39

kind of like losers. You know what I

1:36:41

mean? They need to, you need to

1:36:44

step up and organize. You need to get voter turnout.

1:36:46

You need to mobilize people. You need to dumb down

1:36:48

some stuff or repackage it like Millet did. That is

1:36:50

the formula. But some people are

1:36:53

just way too smart. Well, they joke about it.

1:36:55

I'm pretty... I may have this

1:36:57

wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's Dave Smith's speech. I

1:36:59

saw the Libertarian Party conference where he's... I think he

1:37:01

made a joke about the fact that libertarians can't agree

1:37:03

on anything and get along. And that is a problem.

1:37:05

Yeah. Because look, it doesn't have to be...

1:37:09

I think you can have a libertarian

1:37:11

influence party. You could have a progressive

1:37:13

libertarian party. You could have a conservative

1:37:16

libertarian party. But where

1:37:18

you are grouped around a simple,

1:37:21

solid set of ideas which are based

1:37:23

in economics. We talked about Dominic

1:37:26

Frisbee yesterday. He said the way... He wrote a

1:37:28

book on this. The way to change quickly is

1:37:31

through taxation. History

1:37:34

has proven that. Yeah. If you could

1:37:36

come in and you could... I don't know, half

1:37:38

taxation. You put more

1:37:40

money in people's pockets. They've got more money to

1:37:43

spend on their families, more money to grow and

1:37:45

create businesses. I

1:37:47

think that would be popular. For sure. Where

1:37:49

does it come from? But it's the

1:37:51

same argument that politicians have said. Especially in Argentina,

1:37:53

the main argument is, I will put more money

1:37:55

in your pockets. You will have more food in

1:37:57

the fridge. Trust me. But more of

1:38:00

his... money. Right. I'm going to take more of

1:38:02

his money. Exactly. Exactly. Instead of like, I'm going

1:38:04

to lower taxes, so you have more money left

1:38:06

with every paycheck that you can spend on the

1:38:08

food. So it's just like, it's the same promise,

1:38:10

but to hold different ways to go about it.

1:38:12

Yeah. Well, I mean, look, I'm

1:38:15

I'm hopeful that this is a

1:38:17

very successful project in Argentina. And

1:38:19

I'm hopeful it shows

1:38:21

people it doesn't matter whether you vote left,

1:38:24

right, whatever, but that you just people

1:38:27

get a better grasp of the economic

1:38:29

framework that that and

1:38:31

that is so far been damaging a lot of economies.

1:38:34

That's what I hope would happen. And that's

1:38:36

why I hope because we don't teach this

1:38:38

at school, even when you're taught economics, you

1:38:40

know, I've taught economics at schools, Keynesian. Yeah.

1:38:43

When I left school, I was like, Oh,

1:38:45

Keynesian economics, that's this, that's the public school

1:38:47

of economics that works. Only

1:38:49

when I got into Bitcoin, did I discovered that

1:38:51

was all fucking boring. I got the same story.

1:38:53

Like, you know, I took my experiences from Argentina.

1:38:55

It's like, why is this happening? What is inflation?

1:38:58

What do people keep talking about this? Why? Why?

1:39:00

Why? And then a friend of

1:39:02

me introduced me to ocean economics, I'm like, holy

1:39:04

show. Okay, of course, you know, and then he

1:39:06

does the same friend introduced me to Bitcoin later,

1:39:08

I'm like, okay, that compared combined

1:39:10

with ocean economics, and it makes sense to me

1:39:12

because of my previous experiences. So you need to

1:39:14

go through, I think these stages of like pain

1:39:17

and suffering to later in the future

1:39:19

understand a concept that, you

1:39:21

know, puts explains a lot of the things

1:39:23

that got you there in the first place

1:39:26

in a clear way, I think packaging it

1:39:28

up, packaging it up so everyone can understand.

1:39:30

So a large part of the population understand,

1:39:32

and then having some

1:39:37

I think it always has to come

1:39:39

from a new party. Yeah, I think

1:39:41

that's what happens with the daily is

1:39:43

what's happening in LA. Some new party

1:39:45

has to establish itself, establish a footing

1:39:47

based on better principles. Totally. Like the

1:39:49

states never dissolves political parties never they

1:39:51

dissolve, but they come back, they change