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Town Murder or text Small Town

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week, in Kalamazoo Township, Michigan, when bodies

2:23

start to be found all over the

2:25

place, no one could predict the strange

2:27

story of two brothers that seem to

2:30

have a disturbing competition amongst themselves. Welcome

2:32

to Small Town Murder. Ooooooh!

2:36

Ooooooh!

2:39

Ooooooh! Ooooooh!

2:46

Ooooooh! Hello,

2:49

everybody, and welcome back to Small

2:51

Town Murder! Yay!

2:54

Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name

2:56

is James Petregalow. I'm here with my co-host.

2:59

I'm Jimmy Wisman. Thank you for joining us so

3:01

much on another Insane Edition. I'd say we have

3:03

a crazy episode this week, but we don't need

3:06

to tell you that. I think you get it.

3:08

You know what it is. If you're tuning in,

3:10

you understand it's insane. We will get to that,

3:12

a really, really creepy one, that somehow

3:14

hasn't gotten more publicity. Another one that's like,

3:16

how is this under the radar? This is

3:18

insane. So we'll talk about all

3:20

of that. First, before we get to that,

3:23

shut up and give me murder.com. Oh, what's

3:25

that? That's the site. Get your tickets, live

3:27

shows. Next one up is

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Durham, North Carolina, May 31st. Still

3:32

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Nashville is sold out, so get your tickets, May

3:36

31st. Durham, let's do this. We're going to have

3:38

a great time. Rapidly approaching. Holy shit. And you

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guys are good down there. We know the North

3:42

Carolina crowds. You're going to be up for the

3:44

competition of who screams, shut up and give me

3:46

murder in the loudest. You always are, and we

3:48

appreciate that. And you guys

3:50

always sing to Bob Marley beforehand. It's good

3:52

stuff, so thank you. We can't wait. Also,

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get your tickets. Minnesota, Minneapolis. Be our biggest

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all those Oklahoma City get all your tickets right

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now we can We opened up

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looking for them and then they were sold out there's tickets

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4:45

for crime and sports It's theme park disasters

4:47

again. Oh, holy crap. You don't like sports

4:49

for that So check that out then for

4:52

small-town murder. We're gonna talk about the craziest

4:54

execution methods in history What weird shit has

4:56

people come up with that'll

4:58

hurt real bad Let's try that out on

5:00

this person like we'll talk all about

5:02

that patreon.com/crime and sports and you get

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the show you bet But Jimmy will

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mess your name all up for you.

5:11

So that'll be a good time. That's

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fun stuff Also, listen to crime and

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sports while you're at it and also

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listening your stupid opinions because holy shit

5:19

is it hilarious So check that out.

5:21

Oh, yeah that said disclaimer is a

5:23

comedy show it is we're comedians Right

5:25

gonna make jokes and people are gonna

5:27

die These things are gonna definitely happen

5:30

on the same show thing is we do it

5:32

tastefully Thing yeah, there's

5:34

certain ways you could do it. We number one.

5:36

We don't make fun of the victims All right,

5:38

the victims families either. Why is that James? Cuz

5:41

we're assholes, but but we're not scumbags That's all

5:43

I have it. Yeah, other than that I mean,

5:45

there's plenty of good stuff to make fun of

5:47

especially murderers there are a lot of fun to

5:50

make fun of because who the hell decides to

5:52

do that, so That

5:54

said I think it's time everybody let's all

5:56

sit back. What do you say? Let's all

5:58

clear the lungs and let's all shout,

6:02

shut up and

6:05

give me murder.

6:08

Let's do this everybody, Joey. Let's

6:10

do it, Jimmy. Let's go on a trip. Here we go. We

6:13

are going to Michigan, to

6:16

Kalamazoo Township, Michigan. Is

6:19

that different from Kalamazoo? Yeah,

6:21

technically it's different. It's technically

6:23

Kalamazoo Charter Township, but they shorten

6:25

it to Township. That's a little

6:27

long. It's

6:30

weird. It's in two separate chunks,

6:32

this town, on the

6:35

north end of Kalamazoo. So it's

6:37

kind of on the edge of Kalamazoo, in two chunks that

6:39

don't connect with each other. What's

6:41

in Kalamazoo? Is there a college there or

6:43

some shit? Yeah, there's college stuff. Derek Jeter's

6:45

from there. That's about all I know about

6:47

it. I don't know. I just know

6:49

it. I've heard of it because that was a stupid

6:51

name. Yeah, it's a fun name. It's a funny name.

6:55

It's in southwestern Michigan. It's

6:58

an hour and 15 to Lansing, Michigan,

7:01

and about four hours and 10 minutes

7:03

to Onaway, Michigan, which is our last

7:05

Michigan episode, the Merry Mutilator, back in

7:07

November. So that was a fun one.

7:09

Area code 269. It's in Kalamazoo County.

7:12

That's easy. I suppose we'll just keep

7:14

using the fucking word. Yeah. So this

7:17

town, it's great

7:19

when they talk about the Kalamazoo Zoo.

7:21

That's my favorite. One

7:23

of our things to do is at the Kalamazoo Zoo.

7:26

They love talking about it there. Under the people wall

7:29

exhibit? Yeah. They should call it the

7:31

Kalamazoo and then have the zoo being capped. So they

7:33

make it kind of cool, you know, we get it.

7:36

So it was initially organized the

7:38

town under the name of Arcadia

7:40

Township. Oh, not bad. Which sounds

7:43

like a neighborhood in Arizona,

7:45

in suburbs of Phoenix. Yeah.

7:47

And it was an act of

7:49

the territorial legislature. Then

7:51

the same day, they organized

7:53

Kalamazoo County. Initially Arcadia Township

7:55

consisted of all eight Northern

7:58

tier townships in Kalamazoo. County.

8:00

Okay. Then they shrunk it

8:02

because then Richland Township said

8:05

its own... they were they carved out a

8:07

chunk for themselves. Once rich people land it's

8:10

over. That's it. And then

8:12

in 1836 they just changed Arcadia

8:14

Township to Kalamazoo Township on

8:16

the same day that the town of

8:19

Bronson was renamed Kalamazoo. So

8:22

one day a bunch of guys in town thought

8:24

the word Kalamazoo was pretty fucking fun. And they

8:28

were like let's name a bunch of shit after that.

8:30

What do you say? The next day they sobered up

8:32

and they're like we named our town Kalamazoo. Did

8:35

we really do that? Yeah. We sold all

8:37

the animals from the zoo. Wow. Dude

8:40

we gotta stop drinking so much before these

8:42

meetings. Like after the meetings we should drink because

8:45

we just named a bunch of shit Kalamazoo.

8:47

I do love that that is

8:49

a very Michigan thing though. Nobody else...

8:52

like there's a lot of towns in

8:54

this country named that are the

8:56

same as somewhere else. I'll bet Michigan's the

8:58

only one that did this stupid shit. Not

9:00

a lot of Kalamazoos probably.

9:04

So in 1837 Cooper Township

9:06

set off too. So that's how you

9:08

get this area. You get the main

9:10

city and then a bunch of little townships. Wow. Here's

9:13

a few reviews of this town here.

9:15

Most of them are pretty good. Here's

9:17

five stars. A wonderful quiet place to

9:19

live. A nice location that is close

9:21

to just about everything. Very safe and

9:23

nice community to live in. We'll be

9:25

the judge of that. We'll tell you whether it's safe or

9:27

not with our stats later on. It's here so safe. That's

9:30

so safe. Four stars. Kalamazoo Charter

9:33

Township is a great community to be

9:35

a part of. There are the

9:37

perks of living in the city of Kalamazoo

9:39

but being on the outskirts and having country-like

9:41

living. That's the burbs. Yeah.

9:43

That's a mouthful man. That's a lot.

9:45

It's a lot. The people are nice

9:47

and super helpful. Everyone is always willing

9:49

to help no matter the situation. How

9:51

much help do you need from strangers?

9:54

And no matter? That don't get paid for

9:56

it. Yeah. Because like if you call the fire

9:58

department and they come put a out your fire. That's

10:00

not everyone's willing to help. That's their job. You know

10:02

what I mean? Or like the police department come or

10:05

the ambulance or something. You got like a sticky bolt

10:07

that you can't get off of. What do I mean?

10:09

Great caliper. Somebody's coming by. You need someone to get

10:11

the other end of this fucking, the other end of

10:14

this log to move it over there in your

10:16

yard. Is that just people just show up? Everybody? He's

10:18

just posting on the Calamoo Zoo site.

10:20

That's it. Just post up. Three stars.

10:23

This is fucking great. This is 2015, this review is

10:27

from by the way, just to give you

10:29

an idea. Currently, I live in a trailer

10:31

park. Okay, that's

10:33

your opening gambit here. Currently,

10:35

I live in a trailer park, which is not the

10:37

ideal place to live. Really. At

10:41

least you noticed it. It can be. It

10:43

can be okay, but I don't think they live in

10:45

a great trailer park probably. If you're

10:47

like, yeah, I live in a trailer park

10:49

in Calamoo Zoo Township, Michigan, you're

10:52

not feeling like, oh, I'm at the top of my game

10:54

right now. You're feeling like you're, that's a

10:56

recovery move. Like I just got a divorce, I'm building

10:58

something up, I'm 22, I'm 78 and

11:03

didn't really retire or get it wrong. Or I've

11:05

saved and I'm stretching it all. That's it. I'm

11:07

keeping this money. I'm going to give it to

11:09

my kids. I might live to be a hundred.

11:11

Or my grandkids. Right. I'm just going to live

11:13

in this shit because I don't need much. That's

11:15

possible. But with this economy, it's the best we

11:17

can afford. 2015 economy,

11:20

I guess. It's doing okay, wasn't it?

11:23

Who the fuck remembers from nine years ago?

11:25

I don't fucking know. Maybe. Sure. It was

11:27

doing great. I have no clue. We were

11:29

desperate starting a podcast. So it clearly wasn't

11:32

that great. It wasn't great for us personally

11:34

as comedians. It wasn't doing

11:36

great. When is the economy great for comedians,

11:38

though, honestly? Especially where we were like featuring

11:40

for people and shit. That's not a great

11:42

economy. Here's a hundred dollars for all your

11:45

work. That's not a good economy. Thanks

11:47

for being here. Thanks for being here. Two

11:49

stars. You need to have a lot

11:52

of specialization. That's it.

11:54

That's the whole review. I don't know in what

11:56

field or maybe to get

11:58

a job. There's specific. I

12:00

have no fucking idea. Maybe it's a

12:03

sexual thing. I'm not sure. Specialization. Now

12:05

people in this town, I

12:07

could not...the normal sites that we do the

12:09

towns for some reason they don't have this

12:11

town. They lump it all in with Kalamazoo

12:13

itself. So I had to go to other

12:15

sites and try to piece together the information.

12:17

So there's spots where I don't have the

12:19

normal information that I usually have. People

12:21

here, 22,705 in this town. And look at it, the race of the town

12:28

is about 72% white, about 16% black, about 6% Hispanic.

12:30

So that's

12:35

a Michigan town. Median household income

12:37

here is $59,288 a year, which

12:43

is below the national average

12:45

by about $10,000. But the cost of

12:47

living is actually low, is the thing.

12:49

So that helps. The median home value

12:51

here is $152,000. That's

12:58

very, very low. Absolutely. So maybe you're

13:00

looking for a place to go. Maybe

13:03

you were like, I've been looking for

13:05

somewhere in western Michigan. Well,

13:08

in case this is you, we

13:10

have for you the Kalamazoo Township

13:12

Michigan real estate report. The

13:22

average two bedroom rental here is $1,005, which

13:24

is almost $300 less than the national average.

13:29

Found some houses here. Okay. There's not

13:32

a lot available in Kalamazoo Township, by

13:34

the way. No, I found here's a

13:36

three bedroom, two bath, no

13:38

square footage listed. There's

13:40

a fascinating thing. You can see pretty much,

13:43

you can pretty much measure it out from

13:45

the outside because it's clearly a manufactured home

13:47

or a trailer of some kinds. It has

13:49

that corrugated metal around the bottom, which is

13:51

a bad sign. It's

13:54

just keeping animals out from living under your

13:56

house. That means your house doesn't touch the

13:58

ground. That's what that means. Yeah. No

14:00

foundation is what that is. Are

14:02

we making a foundation or just put some

14:04

metal around it? Just around the base of

14:07

it. Fuck a foundation. It's easy. It's on

14:09

cinder blocks. This is crazy. So

14:11

it's kind of a place like that. It's like a pale

14:13

yellow. It's ugly.

14:16

No inside pictures at all. So this

14:18

place is obviously... We don't

14:20

want you to know how big it is and we

14:22

don't want you to know what it looks like. That

14:25

is marketing, my friend. It does tell you that it

14:27

has one stand up walk-in shower, which

14:29

is probably a little square. It's probably

14:31

not luxurious or anything like that. And

14:34

it also says good carpet throughout. Okay,

14:37

so carpet's good. Someone's old carpet is in

14:39

there. You will have that. Someone else is

14:41

stinking there. One hundred twenty

14:43

four thousand nine hundred dollars for that. Whoa!

14:46

Which seems a little bit steep here. It's

14:48

probably about twelve hundred square feet. Yeah.

14:51

It seems like even for this market it seems a little

14:53

steep in the sandwich. Not

14:55

much. It's like less than a third of an

14:57

acre. It's just a lot. A little block. Here's

14:59

a three bedroom, two bath, twelve hundred forty eight

15:01

square feet. It's on a third of an acre.

15:05

So it's kind of similar to the other house, except it's

15:07

a house house. It's attached to the ground.

15:09

Yeah. A little scary on the outside.

15:11

I'll be honest. The outside kind of looks

15:13

like on Halloween. The kids might avoid it. But

15:16

the inside is all redone. Which

15:19

is nice. It's all hundred percent redone.

15:21

But it's a hundred ninety nine thousand nine hundred

15:23

dollars. Next up, four

15:26

bedroom, two bath, fifteen hundred twenty square

15:28

feet. Looks much bigger from the outside,

15:30

though. It's a two story. It's

15:33

like at the pointy points in the roof.

15:35

Like a frame. Yeah. So

15:37

in different spots. So it looks like a big house, but

15:39

it's only fifteen hundred square feet. It's

15:41

nice. Has a nice fireplace in there. Real

15:44

nice kitchen cabinets that look like the quality wood.

15:46

Like stuff like that. Looks like it was put

15:48

together quality. Two hundred fifty two thousand

15:50

dollars for that. Any

15:53

land? No. No. No

15:57

land. No land. You're not getting land here.

16:00

acre or something like that quarter acre third of

16:02

an eight million dollars for this shit quarter million

16:04

dollars so there you go that is the real

16:06

estate report if you're looking to be there now

16:08

things to do in this town this is important

16:10

here and if we're buzzing

16:13

through this a little bit quicker than normal

16:15

it is because we have a whole lot

16:17

of story to tell and a whole lot

16:19

of wild stuff so the sounds of the

16:21

zoo music festival okay yes

16:23

so it's not just you know

16:25

animal sounds here it's not nope

16:27

they aim to showcase local regional

16:29

national and international live music performances

16:32

you may aim for it but who's the

16:34

national act that's on the well I'm gonna

16:37

read a few of them for you let's

16:39

see here we have Sophia Macintosh and the

16:41

Sages that's a big one Yolanda

16:44

lavender which sounds like a 70s

16:46

black exploitation film this

16:50

Sunday in theaters Yolanda lavender hey turkey get

16:53

away from I and it's like gunshots

16:55

and car chases

16:58

big afro the

17:01

Lucas Powell nope I

17:03

don't know Peyton and Annabelle that

17:06

sounds pretty country Hannah

17:08

Rose Graves I don't know

17:10

if she digs graves or that's her name Nathan

17:15

Walton and the remedy okay

17:18

okay pocket watch I

17:20

prefer pocket Robin it's a better band

17:23

so far not a single act is

17:25

international I don't know any of these

17:27

as the rebel eyes or the rebel

17:29

eaves sorry minor element

17:32

the Zion lion Zion

17:34

lion hey the

17:37

gasoline gypsies oh

17:40

which I mean that's sounds

17:42

like a cool name I guess

17:44

the ragbirds which like a 60s

17:46

band gone wrong horled

17:51

wh o r l ad horled

17:53

like hoard except with an L

17:55

in it horowed I

17:57

don't know horold like I'm gonna call it like a double H

18:00

O R Horror Horror Horror

18:03

and Belly Day. And

18:05

form of an l after the art that

18:07

sort of as forward with oh my gosh

18:10

I don't and the weird bam at an

18:12

allowance flower god will be there. That's

18:15

good day on mushrooms Am will be

18:17

in attendance. Rules Headband Henny will be

18:19

there in Reagan, Isabella and Alex have

18:21

prime and of course Gemini Mooney can

18:23

have a festival out. That's and there's

18:25

more emeritus if if why yeah now

18:27

that's what they don't have that matters

18:29

is that sour lead lot of I

18:31

don't know what that is and that's

18:33

the only one I'm interested and see

18:35

if yeah consist of what What are

18:37

we watching here as it is the

18:39

gunfire with San Francisco biggest going to

18:41

scare the animals of that noise that

18:43

is all at As. At

18:46

his act two hours of animal scaring.

18:48

Saw the crime rate in this town

18:51

will talking about here This I had

18:53

the crime rates actually in likes very

18:55

specific terms which is kind of interesting

18:57

here. Ah now property crimes seem to

18:59

be about on average here in few

19:02

more motor vehicle fast but less burglaries

19:04

and stuff like that and that. That's

19:06

right, I'm out. Violent crimes, murder, rape,

19:08

robbery, and of course assault. The Mount

19:10

Rushmore of crimes seems to be pretty

19:12

high. A lot of these are be

19:15

as the assault. Rape is more than

19:17

double the national average. The murder rate is

19:19

twice the national average is destroyed, but the

19:21

rather rape rate is slightly high, but the

19:24

robbery rate is like I have a third

19:26

of the national average so it's very low.

19:28

Are not going to rob you, but they

19:30

absolutely will assault murder and rape. Yeah, that's

19:33

not and maybe not in that order by

19:35

the way they view on a whole life

19:37

so that's what's going on there. That sad

19:40

damn it. Let's talk about some murder is

19:42

as here we go. There's a lot a

19:44

murder to talk about. Today I'm yeah,

19:46

let's talk about a couple of brothers

19:48

and a weird family and Ryan's ah,

19:51

let's talk about them. Others for kids

19:53

in this family. In there's

19:55

an older sister. a youngest

19:57

sister and then the to middle

19:59

brothers Okay, and they are

20:01

Danny Arthur Reigns, R-A-N-E-S is how

20:04

they spell their name. Danny

20:06

Arthur Reigns, he's born October 20th, 1943, and Larry Lee

20:08

Reigns. And

20:12

those are their birth names, Danny and Larry,

20:15

not Lawrence and Daniel. Danny

20:17

and Larry. Larry

20:19

Lee, Larry Lee sounds like a serial killer

20:21

right away. That is a bad man. Yeah,

20:23

that does not sound good. Larry Lee Reigns here.

20:25

Oh, yeah. I don't know about that. That kind

20:28

of a story about Larry Lee. They

20:30

all know Larry, and they do actually. That's the thing

20:32

about Larry Lee. Of course. Oh, yeah. There's

20:35

a chimpanzee involved in this story, Jimmy. This

20:37

is a fucking insane tale. A

20:39

guy changed his name to a, it's a

20:41

sitcom and a 70s band. He mashes together

20:44

to make a name. Oh, my God. This

20:46

is a wild fucking mess of an episode.

20:48

Okay. Right. So,

20:50

Larry Lee Reigns born March 22nd, 1945. So

20:53

they're a year and a half apart these two. They're

20:56

the same. They're the same. They're the same. A

20:58

year and a half is nothing for brothers. Nothing.

21:01

Nothing. So, Larry is called Dumbo in

21:03

school growing up. Not because

21:06

he's dumb, because he has big ears. And

21:08

this is during the, would Dumbo come

21:11

out in the late 40s, I think. So this

21:13

is, it would have been fresh in everyone's mind.

21:15

Very fresh, yeah. Everyone

21:17

just saw it. Now the parents,

21:21

okay. His mother works the

21:23

evening shift in a paper factory. Making

21:27

paper, not newspaper. No, no, not a

21:29

newspaper. Right. Yeah,

21:32

it doesn't work at the paper. She works

21:34

making paper. For paper. For

21:36

paper. I just work for paper. Which

21:38

one? All of it. The

21:40

paper. Jesus. So that's

21:42

what she does. It's a tough life for Larry and Danny here. And

21:46

they rarely saw her, basically, the

21:48

kids. Yeah. She worked at night

21:50

the whole time. Right. She's sleeping in

21:52

the way. Yeah. He said

21:55

that his mother, Larry would later

21:57

say that his mother was disorganized.

22:00

and just not equipped to deal with the

22:02

family or any of the things that are

22:04

in her lap, including their

22:06

father, who was an alcoholic,

22:08

abusive lunatic. Right. So

22:11

that's always going to help. That's why she's out at night

22:13

probably working. So I'm going to get a job that starts

22:15

right about when he gets home, I think,

22:18

because he's a little tall. Right about when he

22:20

gets home from the bar drunk as fuck. Yeah.

22:23

Apparently the father would just kind of torment

22:25

the boys. He got

22:27

mad really fucking easily

22:30

if the kid's an extra second to

22:32

do what he asked, he would hit

22:34

them. He'd also beat their mother. So

22:38

he beat the hell out of everybody in

22:40

the house, including the furniture. He

22:43

would just go destroy the fucking coffee table when

22:46

he was ... He'd beat the shit out of

22:48

everybody and then just go like bash the coffee

22:50

table in too, because he's got so much fucking

22:52

rage pent up. Yeah. How

22:54

do you even talk to that guy or want any

22:56

sort of relationship when he's beating

22:58

up the Ashley furniture? How do

23:01

you ... Jesus, the Ikea wasn't that sturdy to

23:03

begin with. I

23:05

can't imagine they've got great furniture,

23:07

but even great furniture breaks

23:10

real easy. Yeah. Well, back then

23:12

all furniture was pretty decent quality for the most part. They didn't really

23:14

make a lot of press particle board shit. Not a lot of particle

23:16

board shit. No, they had a lot of like ... A lot of

23:18

real wood. Yeah. There's a lot of like,

23:20

I inherited this from my grandmother, this old table, like a lot of

23:22

that kind of shit. Yeah, it's curved and ornate. Yeah. Heavy.

23:26

All that kind of shit. Yeah. So while

23:28

this is going on, he would also pick fights with

23:30

other men all the time too, at the bar, at

23:32

work, on the street. He's just

23:34

a rageful lunatic. What

23:37

happened? He's an alcoholic version

23:39

of Joe Pepitone's dad from Crime and Sports.

23:41

Yeah. But I don't know if he's

23:43

as good of a fighter. So from

23:45

what Larry said, he seemed to enjoy

23:47

humiliating the boys and kind of tormenting

23:49

them. That was his thing. He

23:51

would also like to scare them and would

23:54

like to force them to do things, like

23:56

drink alcohol when they were seven years old.

23:58

Oh, what? Yeah. drink

24:00

booze when he was seven when they were seven.

24:02

Why would you do that? That's just gonna make

24:04

you clean up puke. No shit. Well he would

24:07

also, yeah, seven-year-old's not gonna hold their liquor at

24:09

all. And they're all good at that. And he

24:11

would make them drink whiskey. So

24:14

it's not like have a beer, you know what

24:16

I mean? Yeah. Like it's whiskey. A

24:18

kid can't handle whiskey. No. You're gonna puke

24:20

that up quick after. That sour mash doesn't

24:23

sit. Two sips, you're gonna

24:25

get a great buzz. Four sips, you're gonna be

24:27

sick for a day and a half if you're

24:29

seven years old. You drink a capri sun or

24:31

apple juice too fast and spin around and you're

24:33

spraying that. Oh, your, yeah, kids are always throwing

24:36

up. They're fucking, they

24:38

don't have, I think that thing that holds

24:41

everything in develops at a later time. Whatever

24:43

that diaphragm is, it holds things down. Yeah.

24:45

The little flap, I'm assuming it's a flap

24:47

of some kind. It's like the toilet flap

24:50

that's inside the tank that holds the water

24:52

in. Doesn't let shit come back into the

24:54

toilet. So he would also, dad

24:56

would throw nickels and dimes on the floor

24:59

and make the boys fight for them. Oh,

25:01

for Christ's sake. Literally fight for a nickel. I mean,

25:03

in the 40s, that's a lot of money actually, or

25:05

50s, 1950s. That'll

25:08

buy you something. But for him, it was entertainment.

25:10

I can, for a nickel, I can watch children

25:12

fight. Wow. Which is

25:14

a pretty sick thing to

25:16

think here. Which is weird. They would

25:20

fight until one of them was fucking

25:24

losing. Yeah. One of them lost and his father,

25:27

when Larry is nine, so Danny would

25:29

be 10, almost 11. 10,

25:31

yeah, he's the oldest. His father leaves the

25:33

family, which is probably the best thing for

25:35

everybody. But a decade

25:38

of that. Oh, that's their formative years,

25:40

are that? Yeah. It's not good. Not

25:42

good. He moves to Florida to take

25:44

a job as a gas station attendant.

25:46

He had a lucrative offer. Lucrative

25:49

offer down in Fort Lauderdale he had to get

25:51

to. So

25:53

this gas station needs some money. Jacksonville's paying

25:55

$1.25 more. I'm going. I'm

25:58

going. You got to do it. When

26:00

you're in a business like that, you just have to

26:02

go where the business is. You know what I mean?

26:04

That's like radio. Yeah, it's like radio or comedy or

26:06

something like that. You gotta go where the gas stations

26:08

are. How

26:12

long would you have to work there

26:14

to make the move worth it? To

26:16

make a move? He

26:18

just wanted to leave the family and move to Florida and

26:20

he got a job at a gas station and that's where

26:22

he worked. He's done with snow in Michigan. Oh yeah, and

26:25

his boys will kind of follow in his footsteps. Danny

26:28

will work at a gas station later on too. It's

26:30

kind of like his career when he's in his 20s,

26:32

which is interesting. The boys never get

26:34

along, by the way. They're always fighting. Really?

26:37

And that has to be from their fathers, been pitting them

26:39

against each other since they were born. So

26:42

they're used to that and rather than team up

26:45

and be like, fuck this guy and what do

26:47

we do? They're the

26:49

main event always. They

26:51

completely took it separately and tried

26:53

to fight their battle alone. A

26:57

lot of siblings get closer

26:59

in this type of situation, but not them. They

27:02

just get farther away. Okay,

27:06

here's one of their stories. They had a lot of troubles.

27:10

One time Danny said Larry threw a kitchen knife

27:12

at him during a fight in their home. And

27:15

he said it missed me and I threw it

27:17

back at him and he also missed too. So

27:20

that's what's going on. There are children with

27:22

knives. This mother goes to

27:24

work at the paper factory and there's a couple of

27:27

fucking wild boys that are literally

27:29

throwing knives at each other in the house.

27:32

This is a wild situation here. I

27:35

guess the father also only had one

27:37

functioning arm, which is wild.

27:40

Did he have the other one still? It was

27:42

attached, but it was a dangle in there. It's

27:44

a dead arm. Didn't really do much for him.

27:46

Oh, he's got some rope with his shoulder. I'm

27:49

pretty impressed actually that he would fight men with

27:51

one arm. That's pretty good. Even

27:53

fighting a child with one arm is pretty impressive. I'm

27:56

more impressed that he somehow kept these kids

27:59

from teaming up. Because you can't find two

28:01

kids with one arm. And I think that's why

28:03

he separated them. He wanted them to divide and

28:05

conquer. And then they could dominate one and one

28:07

rather than two. It's easily a good thing. One

28:10

arm and you're intimidating? Fuck out of here, Gimpy.

28:12

Oh my God. He

28:15

said, by the way, Larry said that one

28:17

time his dad, when he was drunk, ran

28:19

over the family dog with his truck. Yeah?

28:23

Yeah. Ran over the family dog with his

28:25

truck. That was a real hard thing for

28:27

the kids. Yeah, that's tragic. And

28:29

he said, Larry said, I looked at the other kids

28:31

and I thought, how could they be so attached to

28:33

a dog to cry or have a tantrum? Larry didn't

28:36

give a fuck. He's already dissociated

28:38

from emotions, man. Didn't feel anything he said.

28:40

He didn't understand why the other kids are

28:42

upset. He's like, well, fuck is wrong with

28:44

you? It's a dog. Like,

28:46

whoa. Oh boy. You

28:48

are disturbed because an eight year old, that

28:50

should freak them out good. You know what

28:52

I mean? That should destroy him

28:54

till he's at least nine. No shit. He

28:57

went to Parchment High School in Southern Michigan. This

28:59

is both of them dead. They both went to

29:01

Parchment. About Larry, former-

29:04

Paper. Like the paper. Again, it's

29:06

all paper up there. Paper runs their life.

29:10

Mom makes Parchment. I go to Parchment. Former

29:14

classmate of Larry's

29:16

said he had a friendly smile, but he

29:18

was a bully. Okay.

29:20

Larry, which makes sense. He said

29:23

these two were an art class together. From one

29:25

time, Larry came at this guy with a chisel.

29:28

He tried to stab him with a chisel

29:30

in art class. Those are so dull. That'll

29:32

hurt so bad. No shit. An

29:34

art class is like, you don't get a more chill

29:36

class than that. There's not

29:38

like deadlines. You're fucking making things. To be

29:40

that angry and enraged in art class, you

29:42

really got to have a lot coming in

29:44

pent up. So this guy said

29:47

he was trying to stick that thing in me. He

29:49

had this shit eating grin on his face. Do I

29:51

take him seriously or not? He was

29:53

saying, I don't know what to do. Does this get serious? Is he

29:55

trying to really stab me in art class? That's

29:57

a great example of what that smile was.

30:00

Yeah, shitty grin. That's

30:02

what I'm saying with that smile is. He

30:04

likes, apparently, he, just

30:07

like his father, he's learned from his father, he likes

30:09

to scare the shit out of people. Right. And

30:12

make them fucking uncomfortable. And he's scared. And he thrives

30:14

on the discomfort. He thrives it, yeah. Someone does it

30:16

to him so he's now doing it to other people.

30:19

That's what's going on here, not to get too psychological

30:21

about it, but that's what it is. Hey

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32:42

town murder. Now they would

32:45

visit a farm, the boys,

32:48

apparently. There's a Mrs. Norman

32:50

Hawley. It's from the sixties,

32:53

this newspaper. So she

32:55

doesn't even get her first name. Mrs.

32:58

Norman is who she is. Mrs. Norman Hawley.

33:01

She said that Larry used to visit the farm

33:03

that her parents owned. And

33:05

she said, my father felt sorry for the boys when

33:07

they came to the farm on weekend. And

33:10

this woman said, Larry was always nice to me.

33:12

He would do things for me, such as shining

33:14

shoes and running errands, but I didn't like him

33:17

at first because he showed his mother no respect.

33:20

So nice to these people, outside the house,

33:22

but he had no respect for his mother

33:24

whatsoever and treated her like shit. What Mrs.

33:26

Norman Hawley doesn't understand is that that's

33:29

what they were conditioned to do. Doesn't

33:31

get it. And I can't imagine that. What about

33:34

the older and youngest girl that were in here

33:36

too? This isn't an household for a little girl.

33:38

This is, no, this is fucking crazy. So

33:40

Larry quickly

33:42

turns to fucking off his life here.

33:46

And some of it's not his fault. Like growing

33:48

up with his father obviously isn't his fault and

33:50

Danny either. But at 13 years old, he

33:52

meets a woman. Larry

33:56

does. Oh, 13. Yeah.

34:00

The eighth graders. He

34:03

meets a 23-year-old woman who's

34:06

a divorcee with three toddlers.

34:09

And they have a romantic relationship. Oh.

34:12

He's 13. What

34:14

happened to her? What happened to her

34:16

where? Oh my. She's a

34:18

divorced woman with three babies and she's like, let

34:20

me fuck this eighth grader. Her

34:23

childhood is... Wow. How

34:25

old are those kids? Is 110 because she may think... No, they're

34:27

toddlers. They're toddlers. They're all under...

34:30

They're all under four. Whoa. She

34:32

pumped three kids out, got divorced. You know,

34:34

the relationship produced three quick kids divorced and

34:36

now she's like, I'm going to fuck a

34:38

child. So how awful

34:40

was the guy she was with that she

34:43

wants to now be with somebody that can't

34:45

do those things because they're a child? He's

34:47

too weak. Yeah.

34:50

This is from Larry. He says, 10.30 every

34:53

night I would be out of my bedroom window and

34:55

I'd go down and hang out at Sue's all night.

34:57

Her name is Sue. She was

34:59

big on records. We

35:01

would sit around because this is what? He was born in

35:03

45. So this is like 1958. So

35:05

this is picture Greece. Greece

35:08

takes place in 1959. This

35:11

is Greece. He said, we

35:13

would sit around and listen to records

35:15

and I liked her kind of music.

35:17

Misty, Nat King Cole, that kind of

35:20

stuff. Well, I'm a sentimental guy. We

35:22

would sit and listen to music and

35:24

talk. You're not a sentimental guy.

35:26

Your dog got killed and you wondered why you had

35:28

no feelings about it. That's a great point. And you're

35:30

not a sentimental guy. You're a child. A

35:32

guy and you're a child. Yeah. He's

35:35

13. You're a children. Yeah.

35:37

She could be playing fucking Jim Jones albums and as

35:40

long as she's blowing you when you're 13 you'd think

35:42

it was the greatest thing in the world. Yeah. No,

35:44

put that Hitler album back on. I don't fucking care. Whatever.

35:47

Yeah. Nuremberg, sub shit. Whatever.

35:50

Yeah. Blow me. I

35:53

don't care. I

35:56

mean, yeah. Some of these kids didn't get sex until they

35:58

were 23 and married. When

36:00

I was 17 getting anything regular, I was like,

36:03

this is the best thing. Yeah.

36:06

What are we doing? Imagine 13. Why

36:08

go to work? Yeah. This

36:10

is great. This is great. This is forever.

36:13

So, he said, quote, she had beautiful

36:15

fingernails, almond shaped. What a weird thing

36:17

to notice as a child. Let

36:22

me tell you about the night we decided to be

36:24

lovers. Oh, boy. Let's

36:27

talk. Let me tell

36:29

you about the night she decided to molest me. Let

36:31

me tell you about that. Let's talk about the night

36:33

that she did something terribly illegal. Yeah. Imagine

36:36

this is we were talking about a 13 year old girl

36:38

talking about this. She'd be like, oh my God. The

36:40

night we decided? No, man. We

36:42

decided to be lovers. You don't get to. I was

36:44

sitting on the floor and she was sitting on the

36:47

couch and I was holding her hand, painting her fingernails.

36:49

He's got a weird fingernail obsession. No,

36:51

shit. He's got a hand. Yeah, he's like, let me paint

36:53

those for you. And for

36:55

some crazy reason, I just looked up into her

36:57

eyes and kissed her hand. I

37:00

was blowing on her fingernails to dry them and it

37:02

seemed like the thing to do. And I did it.

37:04

And she just melted. Oh,

37:07

boy. She was forever saying, what am I doing

37:09

with a kid? But with the lights

37:11

out, I wasn't a kid. What?

37:14

He could sling dick even at 13.

37:17

What am I doing with a kid? Yeah. What

37:20

am I doing with this insanely illegal relationship that I'm

37:22

involved in? What am I committing

37:24

a felony? Yeah. So

37:27

he would basically hang

37:29

out with Sue all the time. They were

37:32

like a couple that almost lived together. He

37:34

was there every night. He can't tell anybody.

37:36

No, but he was always there. He would

37:38

babysit for her children when they

37:40

were at work. He would... Yes,

37:42

he could relate. Yeah. He would wash

37:45

the dishes and do chores. She had

37:47

just adopted a teenage kid that she also

37:49

fucks, basically. It's weird. And

37:52

he said that he would spend all his money

37:54

on them. He would buy the kid's presents and

37:56

buy her presents. Yeah. Basically, any

37:58

money he got, he would spend it on them. just being a

38:01

father. He's trying to be a dad

38:03

at 13, which is creepy. Now in

38:05

the 60s though, as

38:07

this progresses, Sue's still around. He's

38:09

always with Sue, but both

38:12

brothers now, Danny and Larry, began

38:14

dating the same girl. Fantastic.

38:17

Yeah, everything's a competition

38:19

with these things, whether it's a nickel on

38:21

the floor or that girl or anything's a

38:23

competition. Who had her first? We

38:25

don't know, but apparently as a girl named

38:27

Kathy, she'll come up again multiple

38:30

times in this story and so will Sue. These

38:32

women for some reason stick around these guys for

38:34

decades. I don't know why. So

38:37

I guess Larry now, so Larry

38:39

is like 14 years old, 15 years

38:41

old, and he's dating a 26 year

38:44

old, and then he's got also a high school girlfriend

38:46

that he's fighting with his brother about. This is a

38:48

lot of drama for a fucking sophomore. You know what

38:50

I mean? And why would you? You've got a regular

38:54

pussy at home. What are

38:56

you doing? Yeah. You're going

38:59

out? Yeah, fucking with this girl with a

39:01

Lisa Frank backpack. Come on, man. The 26

39:03

year old knows tricks by now. This

39:05

girl doesn't know what she's doing. What are we talking about? So Larry

39:09

at 16. Okay. This

39:12

is from his probation officer after

39:15

this incident, Kyle Hazleton. He

39:17

said, Larry was 16 years old and he stole a car.

39:20

Now the charges end up being dismissed,

39:23

luckily for Larry. And this

39:25

probation officer said, when I told him

39:27

he was free, he broke down and

39:29

cried. So that'll make him

39:31

cry, but not the dog being killed. He

39:34

said that he, the probation officer said he

39:36

didn't think he should have been freed. He

39:39

thinks at least he should have had to be sent

39:41

to a psychiatrist. He's like, there's something wrong with the

39:43

fucking kid. It was pretty obvious, but they

39:46

didn't send him to anything. They didn't make him get

39:48

any help. They just said dismissed. So then

39:50

he's 17. He dropped out

39:52

in the 10th grade because you

39:54

know, it's a lot of the pressure of being a family

39:56

man and having a check on the sides a lot for

39:58

you when you're a sophomore. And

40:01

he and a friend stole another car. They

40:04

get arrested and the judge gives

40:06

him a choice, and they did this a lot back then,

40:09

either juvenile hall or the

40:11

Army. Take

40:14

your pick, Chief, at this point. This is 1962. You

40:18

dropped out of high school? You're a big

40:20

grown-up. You either go to jail or head

40:22

out and be a real man. Head out

40:24

and fucking do that shit. So he joined

40:27

the Army. Here?

40:29

And that only lasts

40:31

11 months because he gets kicked

40:33

out with a dishonorable discharge after

40:35

a drunken assault on another soldier.

40:37

Yeah, because that's a terrible idea

40:39

to put a degenerate into regimented...

40:43

Well, scheduled... Some

40:45

people, it turns them around. Really? Oh

40:48

yeah, there's some people that were fuck-ups and they went

40:50

in the military and said the regimentation was what they

40:52

needed and they liked it. Because those are people that

40:54

if they got arrested and went to prison, they would

40:56

have been okay too because they like regimentation. They like

40:58

being told where to be and what time to be

41:00

there because their brains... If they're

41:02

fucked... I'm not saying people that join the

41:05

military, that's the way they join, but the people who

41:07

join because they don't have anything else to go,

41:10

that's kind of what it is. Sometimes it helps them and

41:12

sometimes it completely breaks their brain and their brains can't handle

41:15

it. I just think

41:17

it's fucked up that you're sending a person

41:20

who has proclivities for doing

41:22

things bad into a situation where we

41:24

need them to be... Whereas

41:27

the other place, the people that are going to deal with them

41:29

are trained for that guy. Yeah,

41:31

absolutely. They weren't trained for that

41:33

guy. There is no training necessary for that

41:35

guy. It was do this, do that, or

41:37

else you get written up and put in

41:39

the fucking jail. That's a good point. You

41:41

get court martialed. You fuck up going to

41:43

jail anyway. That's it. They just don't... They're

41:45

not going, Larry, what are you doing

41:48

again? It's fucking Larry. Here's

41:50

push-ups. Everybody clean the toilets and Larry, get

41:52

in the fucking brig. Those are your options.

41:54

Larry, run. That's

41:56

it. He gets repeatedly disciplined for

41:58

misconduct and chronic... Alcoholism he's

42:00

always drunk in

42:03

the army in his first 11 months. Meanwhile

42:05

while While

42:08

he's in the army. Oh god, Danny

42:10

marries Kathy and has two kids. Oh

42:14

Start it. Oh Marries her

42:16

has one kid and then they end up having another

42:18

kid So yeah by the time Larry gets back in

42:20

11 months his loss Yes,

42:23

his brothers married his girlfriend and impregnated

42:25

her and they're having children now So

42:27

you enough to war and lost the

42:29

battle at home. Yep, not even war. He didn't

42:32

even get there yet This is just that base.

42:34

This is in like North Carolina or some shit

42:36

He just attacked some guy with a fucking with

42:38

a beer bottle probably so he comes

42:40

back to Kalamazoo and He

42:43

asked sue to marry him Marry

42:46

me sue. Yeah. Yeah, she's 28 29. She said no I

42:52

Can't and back then a woman with three kids

42:54

who was single like they were like looking to

42:56

get married again And she was like not to

42:59

you though. You're I can't you

43:01

couldn't even like hack it. You can't hack it

43:03

in the army You can't hack it in high

43:05

school. What are we talking about here? So Christmas?

43:10

Here going into 64. He tries to

43:12

kill himself. Yeah, Larry's

43:14

had enough He's like life has really been a not

43:17

been a better roses here so far. He's pretty

43:19

shitty He's had no opportunities. Well, he's

43:21

had one He's in the front

43:23

seat of his 1958 black and

43:25

white Plymouth convertible with the top up though

43:28

not to the top down with he

43:30

just bought a he stopped at Sears and

43:32

bought a hose and hooked it

43:34

up from the Tailpipe in

43:36

his car and a state

43:39

trooper found him in the

43:41

front seat groggy half Unconscious with the

43:43

hose attached and came over and fucking

43:45

did that he spends 10 days in

43:48

Kalamazoo State Hospital Because

43:50

they're want to check him out because obviously he's got

43:52

some problems His mother insisted he

43:54

be released and they released him after 10 days

43:59

So that's two opportunities to try to

44:01

fucking help this kid and figure out what's

44:03

wrong with them. And

44:05

they've blown it. They've blown it. So now

44:07

he's out and now he's an adult. So

44:09

now nobody gives a shit. Now the help

44:11

is going to be jail or get your

44:13

shit together. Those are your options. There's no

44:16

more, oh, what's wrong with you, you know,

44:18

young man type of shit. So

44:20

May 1964, Larry is out West. Larry

44:25

likes to ramble in Nevada.

44:27

He'll end up. Yeah, all the

44:29

way out there. And this is

44:32

like, you know, 60s Vegas is a

44:34

totally different Vegas. This is not good. Yeah, it's

44:36

a very small place. This is Bleak, Empre, Nevada.

44:38

It's one street on Vegas. It's all lit up.

44:42

He'll go through Vegas and all around there.

44:44

So he, okay,

44:46

May 1964, early May,

44:49

he's hitchhiking because that's what

44:51

he's doing. And he gets

44:53

a real odd ride here. A

44:55

guy named Dave Pitts is the guy he

44:58

gets a ride with. Now Dave Pitts would

45:00

travel and do all sorts of shows. He

45:02

did tons of shit with the ice capades.

45:07

He's an ice skater and

45:09

this is the best. Real nice guy. He's

45:11

got a chimp named Spanky. And

45:15

Spanky the chimp can also ice skate.

45:18

What? Yeah. So he dresses up, I have

45:21

these pictures, he dresses up in this crazy

45:23

fucking costume with this elaborate shit like an

45:25

animal. He looks like a lion,

45:27

Dave Pitts. Like an ice skater. Yeah,

45:30

exactly. Like an ice skater.

45:32

Without the chick though. His chick is a monkey.

45:35

His chick is Spanky? And

45:37

then he's got Spanky the ice

45:39

skating chimp. So

45:41

he travels around the country doing

45:44

shows with Spanky, ice capade shows and ice

45:46

shows and all this shit. That's what he's

45:48

doing. But he's like a known guy. He's

45:51

been on TV and shit. Like a known

45:53

guy, Dave Pitts. You do that shit, it'll

45:55

get attention. He's the only guy with

45:58

an ice skating chimp. Yeah. If

46:00

you go, we need something else in this show. I

46:02

don't know, like something different, you know, just something that

46:04

really catches the eye. How about

46:06

a chimp that ice skates? Fucking perfect. How many of

46:08

those are there? One.

46:11

Spanky. And

46:13

that's where he goes. So

46:15

he's known as the world's only ice

46:17

skating chimpanzee. Now

46:20

he's driving a 1963 GMC Suburban Carriole. Fuck

46:26

yeah. It's a big old thing because

46:28

he's got all of his shit in there. He's

46:30

got trunks full of props, costumes, I

46:33

don't know, chimp things. You got a kid who- He's

46:35

got a cage for that chimp in there. The kid

46:37

just let that thing run around the car. Chimp is

46:39

in the back seat in a cage as well, we'll

46:41

talk about. Yeah, so there's that. He's got all that

46:43

shit, so he's got to have a big stuff here,

46:45

a big car. So he

46:48

and Spanky, Pitts and Spanky were headed to

46:50

Duluth, Minnesota to start rehearsals for their third

46:52

season of the ice capades. Hell

46:55

yeah. So they were getting out there to do that. So

46:57

they're the headliners, by the way. Them

47:01

and some Olympian are the headliners. Who

47:04

the fuck else can make a monkey skate? That's

47:06

awesome. I'm also not following that

47:08

no matter what I do. No, you

47:10

don't follow children or animals. You certainly

47:12

don't follow fucking animals doing human tricks.

47:14

That's not- you don't follow that shit.

47:16

You can't top that. You'd

47:19

have to be a human that could fly because

47:21

he's the only ice skating chimp. You'd have to do

47:23

something that no other human can do, which would be

47:25

the gift of flight, I think, to match that. It's

47:30

the only way you can match that. Have

47:32

wildly shaped hands where you can rip faces

47:34

off. Yeah, it's not like that. Because that's what

47:36

kids do. And then freak out and rip faces

47:38

off with hands and feet at the same time.

47:40

Just tear fucking shit apart. So

47:43

Pitts plans to stop in Evanston, Indiana

47:45

to see his parents and show them

47:47

his new car. And

47:49

he's normal. He's used to this.

47:52

He goes to 65 cities a

47:54

year to do traveling in this car.

47:56

So this is normal. Now,

47:59

they- left Pitts

48:01

and Spanky, left Los

48:04

Angeles before sunrise, and

48:06

they drive to Vegas. That's the next stop.

48:09

Now, Pitts says he saw a young man with his

48:12

thumb out hitchhiking. He said he looked

48:14

like a, quote, preppy teenage college kid. He had

48:16

short hair and just looked like a college kid

48:18

that was on the run. And back then, hitchhiking,

48:20

you didn't go, oh, Jesus Christ, when you see

48:23

a hitchhiker, people were like, oh,

48:25

look at that guy. Yeah, pull over, give him

48:27

a ride. It was totally like a normal thing

48:29

to hitchhike and pick up hitchhikers. There weren't near

48:31

as many cars available either to own. No,

48:34

that's the other, yeah, there wasn't as many cars,

48:36

and there also was just, you know, this kid,

48:38

he basically, he said he had like a James

48:40

Dean pompadour. He looked like a kid from the

48:42

mid-60s. He was a skinny

48:44

kid. He's only 5'7 and skinny, Larry,

48:46

too. So here's Larry on

48:48

the side of the road. Dave

48:51

said he thought he might be a Mormon missionary, actually.

48:53

Oh. So he was

48:55

like, maybe he's a Mormon missionary. I don't know, he

48:57

goes, but he was driving these long stretches with just

48:59

you and a chimp in the back. He

49:01

started to get fucking lonely. A little stir-crazy, yeah. And

49:03

he was like, yeah, you talk to anybody. Yeah.

49:06

And he said the kid had a white shirt

49:09

and black tie on, like either reservoir dogs or

49:11

a Mormon. Yeah, one of the two. Yeah.

49:14

And yeah, so he pulled over, and the kid said he's

49:16

trying to get to Michigan. And the guy said,

49:18

hop in, I can take you as far as Chicago. Oh,

49:21

wow. Which you don't expect that. You just got your whole

49:23

trip done pretty much. Yes. As

49:26

far as Chicago, isn't that past it? Well,

49:29

I mean, no, because then Michigan would be a... Isn't

49:32

Michigan on the other side? No. Michigan

49:35

is to the east of Wisconsin. Okay. Wisconsin

49:37

is next to Minnesota. Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan.

49:39

That's how they go on top. Okay.

49:41

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

49:43

Chicago is past Michigan. No, but

49:45

it's right. It's still over there. No, it's not. You're

49:48

not... Chicago is not past Michigan. Chicago

49:51

is right. Chicago's... All right.

49:53

Follow the lake. We

49:56

were there. We drove from fucking Milwaukee to

49:58

Chicago down the fucking... That's what I

50:00

mean. It's right there. That's above that, and

50:02

then Michigan's to the east. Why do

50:04

you keep saying Milwaukee? That's

50:06

west of Chicago, right? Milwaukee

50:08

is north of Chicago. Okay. Yes.

50:12

And then northeast of Illinois is Michigan. Why are

50:14

you challenging me on this? I know where the

50:16

fuck it is, and I'm telling you. Just say,

50:18

okay, that's where it is. You don't know, so

50:20

don't argue. What are you talking about? Right. My

50:23

point is Chicago's east of Michigan, isn't it? No.

50:27

Michigan is east of Chicago. So

50:29

I keep telling you, it goes Wisconsin,

50:31

then Michigan. Wisconsin is above Illinois. Michigan

50:34

is next to it over there. Wait.

50:37

Okay. Moving on. I

50:43

get it. Dave Pitts gets it. Fucking Spanky

50:45

gets it. Spanky's in a

50:47

cage, and he understands. Spanky, everywhere we go.

50:49

Spanky. Spanky's

50:52

like, for the back. Where your fucking

50:54

face off. You ask if it's east

50:56

of Chicago again. That's

50:59

amazing. I love it. So

51:02

he said, fuck it. Let's go. So

51:05

here's Larry. He gets in the

51:07

car, and Raines said ... Raines

51:09

didn't see. Larry

51:12

didn't see Spanky at first in the back. Oh. He's

51:14

in a thing, but then he heard it. Oh,

51:16

that'll ... Yeah. And

51:19

Larry said, I get in, and there's

51:21

this ungodly howling and screeching, and what

51:23

a chimpanzee. What kind of people is

51:25

this, is his response. Only

51:28

one people. Yeah. What kind of

51:30

people is this? It's a weird way to

51:32

put it, but ... Yeah. You

51:34

know, normally, he's probably done a lot of hitchhiking. Probably

51:36

never gotten in a car with a chimpanzee in it.

51:38

That's new. Yeah, and

51:40

I would jump the

51:43

fuck out. What do you ... No. That

51:45

cage is secure, right? Jesus Christ. So,

51:49

Raines, though, Larry said he wasn't afraid. He

51:52

thought he was cool, because he had seen Spanky on TV.

51:56

Oh. And he said, yeah, we do this ice cape. He goes,

51:58

you're the fucking ice skating, Trimp Guy. Holy shit. I've

52:00

seen you he was like that's fucking awesome. Yeah, that chimp

52:02

is amazing like he thought it was cool as shit So

52:05

he'd seen him and he's like let's do

52:07

it. But the problem is that Spanky

52:11

from the moment That

52:14

Larry got in the car spanky did

52:16

not like him and freak the fuck

52:18

out Mm-hmm. He had a vibe on

52:20

him. Yeah, and didn't like him and

52:22

started fucking going crazy Yeah, he said

52:24

that he would do a pant hoot,

52:27

which is when they do the freaking

52:29

out fucking thing and Dave's

52:33

son later will say spanky knew this person should

52:36

not be in the van Wow

52:38

bad vibe from spanky and spanky was like fuck

52:40

this fuck this get him out. Don't like him.

52:42

Don't like him So I would trust

52:44

the monkey at that point or the aper whatever fuck

52:46

it is the chimp. I'd trust the check So

52:49

they go through Utah and into Wyoming.

52:51

Let's not discuss the photography of where

52:53

those are Or

52:55

this poor monkey is riding through all

52:58

of this with this guy in the car and he's panting

53:00

and hooting and hollering Yeah, so that's the thing but he

53:02

felt bad He didn't want to drop the kid off and

53:05

be like no monkey doesn't like you You gotta drop you

53:07

off in the middle of desert. So they

53:09

stop for at

53:11

a motel one night Pits

53:13

and spanky go inside and Larry sleeps

53:16

in the suburban Okay.

53:18

Now The pits

53:21

will write a letter here about this

53:23

whole thing and he says

53:25

that they crossed into Colorado then Nebraska

53:27

and All

53:29

of that sort of shit. I guess the

53:31

second day While

53:34

they're driving through Colorado and Nebraska

53:37

Larry pulls out a pistol. Why

53:39

a chrome-plated Derringer and He

53:43

said you see what I got in my hand and

53:45

pits was driving. I don't see I can't

53:47

see anything. I'm driving You know and so

53:49

then Larry puts the gun to his head

53:51

and Pulls it back and go,

53:53

you know what it is now to his head the

53:56

driver's to the driver's head Yeah, put the two Dave's

53:58

out here to pits his head Pitt

54:00

said it looked as big as a cannon. That

54:02

fucking thing. Any gun that's close to you looks

54:04

pretty scary. So then,

54:06

Raines tells him, I've been killing

54:09

people, by the way. That's

54:11

what I've been doing out here when you picked me up. Yeah, I've

54:13

been out here a-murdering. He

54:16

said, well, who are you killing? Like

54:18

somebody you know? Raines is like trying to get

54:20

it. He said, no. He

54:23

said, no, people like you who stop and give me

54:25

rides. Oh, boy. Which

54:27

is terrifying. Yeah. He

54:29

said, he told him, Larry said, you know, the more

54:31

people you kill, the easier it gets. So

54:33

he didn't really give a shit about this. And

54:37

Pitts was like, what the fuck? He looked over, he

54:39

said he called him a skinny kid with a weak

54:41

chin later on. Like, this kid's a

54:43

fucking serial killer he's talking about, you know? Weak

54:46

chin. Weak chin, little fucking nobody. Weak

54:50

chin, little pussy. That

54:52

needs to come back as an insult. People

54:54

need to really know their role. You've got

54:56

a weak chin. Now weak chins, people just

54:58

grow big beards over them. Not you. That's

55:01

the thing. You have a good chin. You have a

55:03

fine chin. You don't need a beard, like for

55:05

chin purposes. People if I see

55:07

a beard, I go 90% chance of a weak

55:09

chin right there. Or they go and get

55:12

a fucking implant. Or they

55:14

do that, which is Jesus Christ. That is so creepy.

55:16

Just grow a fucking beard at that point. What are

55:18

you doing? You're

55:21

not Tom Selleck, sorry. Just grow a fucking beard.

55:23

I don't know what to tell you. Grow a

55:25

Justin Bieber beard, then you've got to fucking get

55:27

the implant. You got it. It doesn't work well.

55:29

No. If you've got

55:31

that patchy shit going on, that's a problem. I

55:33

feel so bad for those kids. I do. You

55:36

have no option at that point. No. You

55:38

just, this is, it has to be shaving. No chin and

55:40

that thing? Fuck. Poor

55:42

thing. Poor fucking thing. You've got to

55:44

get a beard murking, a chin murking. Nobody's

55:47

scared of you. No. Even

55:50

this guy, he's got a gun on him. He's

55:52

like this weak chin little bitch. You're not going

55:54

to join me? Yeah, weak chin ass bitch. Pulling

55:56

the pistol. I'll kick the shit out of you.

56:00

So Pitt says, okay, look, I got $150 in

56:02

my wallet. So

56:05

you can have that, obviously you're robbing me.

56:07

Or I open this fucking cage and we

56:09

see what happens. Well, it's in the back,

56:11

that's the other thing. Well, see

56:14

the thing is with this chimp,

56:17

I'm sure it'll freak out and kill

56:19

you if it wants to, but it's

56:21

very trained to not maul the castle.

56:23

It fucking ice skates in front of

56:25

it. It skates with music blaring and

56:27

people cheering and kids yelling and it's

56:29

fine. It's a pretty calm chimp.

56:32

So Raines though, Larry says, no, that's good.

56:34

I'll take the 150, but I'm not leaving.

56:37

He says, let me see your map. He

56:39

looks at a map and he said, oh good, we're near a

56:41

river. So he

56:43

said, tell you what I'm gonna do. We're gonna go to this

56:45

river. I'm gonna kill you and that chimp and I'm gonna dump

56:47

you both in the river. Oh boy.

56:50

Which is fucking insane. So he

56:52

tells him to pull over and

56:54

orders him to open Spanky's cage. Open

56:57

Spanky's cage. Open

56:59

it. Open it. So he unlocks the

57:01

cage and they said, Larry

57:04

would later say the stench of chimp feces hit

57:06

them both in the face as far as that

57:08

went. Like, whoa. He

57:11

said the chimp jumps out right away. This

57:14

is what Larry said. Arms all around Pitts's

57:17

neck, looking over at me just like a

57:19

little kid. Like the chimp is

57:21

scared, like protect me from this guy, even though

57:23

this chimp could maul this fucking guy and rip

57:25

him to pieces. He could tear both of them

57:27

to pieces in a blink of an eye. Yeah,

57:29

and then just jump around and fucking play with

57:32

the gun and he could do everything. And the

57:34

Suburban's his. The Suburban's his and he can go

57:36

on to the next gig. I work alone now.

57:40

Dead weight he was. The guy

57:42

was dead weight. So

57:44

he orders, Larry orders

57:47

Pitts to get in the cage with Spanky. You

57:50

and Spanky get in the cage. Pitts

57:52

begs him, please don't put me in the cage.

57:54

The Larry said- There's shit in there. He said,

57:56

nope, you're getting in the fucking cage. So

57:58

they get into the cage to get in the cage. Larry locks them

58:00

in and then reigns

58:03

here Larry gets into the cab and he drives

58:05

with these two trapped in the fucking hole in

58:07

the cage and Pitts

58:09

said while he was in the cage He said I talked

58:12

to spanky like I always did as a father talking to

58:14

his son telling him that everything was gonna be All right

58:18

That's it very much is So

58:21

once they're in Kansas Larry stops

58:23

the suburban and comes to the back

58:27

and he tells Pitts this Quote

58:30

how does it feel to talk your way out of death?

58:34

So later on Larry will say he

58:37

couldn't bring himself to kill Pitts and

58:39

spanky He said this is

58:41

what's fucked up. This is what's crazy. Think about

58:43

this. Yeah. No, he said Later

58:46

on he told a psychiatrist. He saw

58:49

something special in their human shimp bond

58:51

that he just he they had this

58:53

bond And he just felt terrible. He

58:55

can't destroy. Yeah, he saw

58:57

a father-son relationship. Yeah, what is that? That's

59:00

so weird Wow, that's amazing and he didn't

59:02

want to like ruin it because you didn't

59:04

have that weird He didn't

59:06

get angry at him for it was the opposite.

59:08

It was so unfamiliar and beautiful to him He

59:10

couldn't he couldn't break it. He couldn't destroy it.

59:13

Isn't that weird? So

59:15

fucking weird So

59:18

they end up spending the next 17

59:20

hours after that driving to South Haven,

59:22

Michigan They stopped for breakfast at a

59:25

roadside diner with the chimp.

59:27

He fucking they got out and he breakfast and was like

59:29

don't say anything I'm sure he had like the gun under

59:31

the table at him and shit like that. So that's

59:34

wild Pitt said he was

59:36

terrified the whole time That it

59:38

stopped signs or when a cop car would pull

59:40

along. He said he considered jumping out of the

59:42

suburban Yeah, because he could have but then

59:44

he said even if you do get away then what happens

59:46

to spanky He didn't want

59:48

to leave spanky with this fucking guy So he

59:50

would go drive off and crash and kill spanky

59:52

or go shoot spanky on a spite or whatever

59:54

So that's what he said they get

59:57

in the South Haven Pitts is driving again now.

59:59

So they We've gone back to

1:00:01

one here on positions. We have a

1:00:04

mutual understanding and trust is built again.

1:00:06

Yeah, it's a little Stockholm thing going

1:00:08

on. So Larry

1:00:10

tells Pitts to pull over. The

1:00:13

chimp trainer, he has no money there. So

1:00:17

he asked him for $10 out of the money that he

1:00:19

took from him. I don't have any money. You're

1:00:21

leaving me here with no gas or food money. Can I at least have $10

1:00:24

out of the 150 I gave you? So

1:00:26

Larry handed him 20. So here, take

1:00:28

20. No, but you're

1:00:30

going to have 20. What the fuck is going on here?

1:00:34

I'm going to kill you when you're chimp and dump

1:00:36

him in a river. No, you guys are okay. You

1:00:38

know what? Here's 20 bucks back. They become friends. They're

1:00:40

going to exchange fucking information now. This is ridiculous. Yeah.

1:00:44

So then, Larry warned him, and I don't know

1:00:46

how he was planning on enforcing this, but he

1:00:48

said, you are not to tell

1:00:50

anyone about this for two weeks. Two

1:00:53

weeks? And then I get to say whatever I want?

1:00:56

Yes, because he said at that time, I'm going to

1:00:58

kill myself. So once I'm

1:01:00

dead, you can fucking say whatever you want. Yeah.

1:01:03

He said, but if you do tell, I have your

1:01:05

ID and I know where to find you, I will

1:01:07

come kill you. Is it a deal? And

1:01:10

Pitts, I mean, the guy stays for, he would

1:01:12

say anything at this. Yeah, great. Sure. Yeah,

1:01:15

no, no. Come to my house and fuck

1:01:17

my mother. Absolutely. No problem. Yeah, that sounds great. No,

1:01:19

I'll make an appointment and everything. It'll be great. She'll

1:01:21

be waiting for you all trimmed up and... Wow.

1:01:24

Wow. So he gets

1:01:26

away that way. Pitts takes off. He goes

1:01:28

on to have a long career with the

1:01:30

chimp. Never says a word? Oh

1:01:32

no, he does. He does. Yeah, later, but not

1:01:34

right now. Later, he tells people. He writes his daughter this lengthy

1:01:36

thing. No, I think he does tell police about it, but he

1:01:38

doesn't know who he is. Oh. He's

1:01:40

just a kid. Great point. Yeah. So

1:01:43

he doesn't have any ID on him and he's just a fun

1:01:45

kid. And also, he doesn't know where the fuck he's going. He

1:01:47

could be in Maine by now. Right. Yeah.

1:01:51

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or visit carvana.com today. Who

1:03:27

knows, but later on in May, a 30

1:03:30

year old man who's a school teacher named Gary

1:03:33

Smock, S-M-O-C-K,

1:03:37

goes missing. Okay? His

1:03:39

wife reports him missing. This is

1:03:41

May 30th, 1964. He's

1:03:43

missing a couple days before that. So

1:03:46

this is 5 p.m., May 30th, 1964. It's

1:03:50

a Saturday afternoon. A

1:03:52

patrol officer, a cop, makes,

1:03:55

there's a car, a Chevy on the side of the road that

1:03:57

looks abandoned because there's nobody there. So, He

1:04:00

stops and he sees blood stains on

1:04:02

the bumper. Oh shit. That's not

1:04:05

good And then he sees personal papers scattered

1:04:07

in the front seat So

1:04:09

he's like, okay, there's something going on here. So he

1:04:11

had the car towed to a police station You

1:04:14

got a tow truck out there to tow it to the police station so

1:04:16

they could look at it closer Not on the side of the highway, you

1:04:18

know what I mean? So at that

1:04:21

exact time Mrs. Gary

1:04:23

smock Gary smock's wife

1:04:26

was in the police station making a

1:04:28

missing persons report and saw his

1:04:30

car and Yeah,

1:04:32

well they at that time she heard the

1:04:34

cops talking about there's a car bubble blonde

1:04:36

She said that sounds like my husband's car.

1:04:39

Yeah, it was near the Kalamazoo Zoo Kalamazoo

1:04:42

Zoo. So He

1:04:45

had been missing since the night before. Yeah,

1:04:47

so they popped the car's trunk and Inside

1:04:51

is the body of Gary smock white

1:04:53

30 year old male face in a

1:04:55

pool of fresh blood They said just

1:04:57

a mess So from the

1:04:59

items in the car, he was identified as

1:05:01

Gary smock. He's a 30 year old teacher

1:05:03

from Plymouth, Michigan He'd been

1:05:06

shot in the head just below the ear twice

1:05:10

It's a 22 caliber bullet and there's two of

1:05:12

them in there then a

1:05:14

cord was wrapped around one wrist as

1:05:16

if he'd been tied up at some point and Broke

1:05:19

the bounds tied and his

1:05:21

shoes were missing not wearing any

1:05:24

shoes No shoes and also they figure out later

1:05:26

while talking to his wife that his watch

1:05:28

is also gone when they inventory all the stuff

1:05:30

She says wears his watch so

1:05:33

they Estimate that he

1:05:35

died pretty quickly from the shooting and they

1:05:37

said though it could have happened. It happened

1:05:39

that day It's fresh. Try to the blood

1:05:41

even dry yet. So He

1:05:43

said sometime between 6 a.m. And 2

1:05:46

p.m. In the car though in

1:05:48

the car Yeah, it happened around here and in

1:05:50

the trunk actually so that's back

1:05:52

there They can only get murder time of

1:05:55

death to about three hours now and that's

1:05:57

in best conditions They find the body early

1:05:59

and all back then eight hours was a

1:06:01

pretty good fucking window. So

1:06:04

the police do door-to-door canvases of

1:06:06

all the hotels and motels in

1:06:08

the immediate area, trying to reconstruct

1:06:11

the last day of Gary's life here. They

1:06:13

learned Friday, the day before this, he'd

1:06:16

been on his way to the home

1:06:18

of his in-laws in Allegan after

1:06:21

leaving an appointment in

1:06:23

Battle Creek with the Chamber of Commerce. He'd

1:06:26

been there looking for accommodations for a

1:06:28

future Church of God youth convention and

1:06:31

had a Chamber of Commerce map of local

1:06:33

facilities in his car. So he

1:06:35

was probably checking them out. He

1:06:38

mentioned to the officials at the Chamber of Commerce that he

1:06:40

had to leave to make it to a family dinner. His

1:06:44

wife, Thelma, heard from him around 6 p.m. Friday

1:06:46

evening. He told her that he wouldn't make it

1:06:48

home for dinner, but he'd be there soon. So

1:06:51

go ahead and eat without me. Make me a plate,

1:06:54

whatever. No

1:06:57

other sightings of him or contact from

1:06:59

him until later that night when his

1:07:01

car was seen at a Kalamazoo service

1:07:04

station at around 11 p.m. The

1:07:07

attendant recalled seeing two people in the

1:07:09

car. Okay. Now a

1:07:11

palm print and a fingerprint were

1:07:14

lifted from the car and later

1:07:16

determined to belong to someone other

1:07:18

than Gary or members of Gary

1:07:20

Smock's family, a foreign

1:07:22

fingerprint. So police were hopeful they'd

1:07:25

get a match here. There was

1:07:27

another bullet recovered from the floor of the

1:07:29

car's trunk. His wallet was

1:07:31

empty and a check had

1:07:33

been written on Friday evening in

1:07:36

the amount of $11 to cash. So he wrote a

1:07:39

check for cash for $11. $11,

1:07:43

which is a very specific number. Sure is.

1:07:46

Now earlier that day, about 60 miles

1:07:48

away in Elkhart, Indiana, a

1:07:51

service station attendant named Charles

1:07:53

Snyder, who's 33 years

1:07:55

old, also was shot twice in the head with

1:07:57

a .22. Oh, shit. Twenty

1:08:00

two caliber twice in the had to seduce. He

1:08:03

I, They. They. Said there's about

1:08:06

half of tank of gas and smocks Car:

1:08:08

They estimated the car had gone at least

1:08:10

one hundred miles after being filled that eleven

1:08:12

pm. So. Agencies

1:08:14

from both states are trying to figure out

1:08:16

if the same bullet that he has of

1:08:18

these are from the same gun. Basically one

1:08:21

of these are connected. Jude

1:08:23

since nineteen sixty four, A tip comes

1:08:25

into police about this whole matter. And

1:08:29

it's from a pretty fuckin' months

1:08:31

or so years. lol. Yes, apparently

1:08:33

lowery. After all this, he went

1:08:35

right back to sue his. Yeah.

1:08:38

That he went to Art Arrow by now. if. And

1:08:41

he ends up going in,

1:08:43

tells or everything that happens

1:08:45

really And Sue calls her

1:08:47

mother. For. Tell her about it. Sill.

1:08:50

And. Then a friend came over to talk

1:08:52

about as a mother sent some friend over

1:08:55

to talk about it and somebody called police.

1:08:58

So. They said were called the police need to

1:09:00

turn yourself and this is crazy bubble block.

1:09:02

It was shortly after midnight. The. Police

1:09:04

reserve a call from Arthur Boot A receiver

1:09:06

ever receive a call from Arthur Booth who

1:09:09

told them that Lowry told him of the

1:09:11

killing of a schoolteacher and showed me the

1:09:13

murder weapon. Oh. Boy. So.

1:09:15

Said rains plan to commit suicide from

1:09:17

remorse south. You might want to get

1:09:20

over here. grab him before it was

1:09:22

his brain zaps for the if for

1:09:24

there's no justice. So Sergeant Thompson and

1:09:26

Detective Duncan go to the apartment here.

1:09:28

boots apartment where he is where Larry

1:09:30

as they arrived just as Larry's walking

1:09:32

out of the building or terrific that's

1:09:34

easy have area cigar looking for as

1:09:36

a ask him as they're walking up

1:09:38

to him they didn't. They. Didn't

1:09:41

like read him. his rights are like hey

1:09:43

you They just said the to kill Gary

1:09:45

smock. Why? it's.

1:09:48

So worse. Police whatever you feel, gary smog

1:09:51

as is that even and costs yet is

1:09:53

what you're walking up. an

1:09:55

armed man is he did of area with this

1:09:57

they've been told he has the gun right here

1:10:00

He doesn't have it out. They don't see it. He could

1:10:02

have it tucked in his waistband or something They're like you

1:10:04

kill Gary smock It's a Derringer.

1:10:06

It could be on his wrist and he could just

1:10:08

like pop it out like a fucking like a cowboy

1:10:10

like a villain Yeah, like a like a villain in

1:10:12

an Old West casino You

1:10:15

don't know He said that

1:10:17

Larry said quote. Do you mean the school

1:10:19

teacher? Yes, I did That

1:10:22

guy kept walking. Yeah, he's like yeah. Yeah, that's

1:10:24

me. That's that's I've been waiting for you. What

1:10:27

took you so long. Yeah So

1:10:30

they said well, where is the

1:10:32

gun and he said in my pocket? And

1:10:36

they were like, okay, will you put your hands behind your

1:10:38

back and let us take it he goes yeah sure Oh

1:10:41

my god, no problem. No confrontation. Nothing.

1:10:43

They're very lucky. Yeah, absolutely So during

1:10:46

the three-hour interrogation they bring him in

1:10:49

He tells that he's he's killed other people.

1:10:51

This is not just him. There's other people

1:10:53

also They said that they

1:10:56

talked to him He said he was quiet and clean-cut

1:10:58

appearing and they're just they didn't even know if they

1:11:00

believed him He's five foot five

1:11:03

or five foot seven the hundred thirty pounds. They

1:11:05

said he talked freely Alternating between

1:11:07

laughing and being serious and just they're

1:11:10

like is this dude for real? They didn't believe him

1:11:12

they were like this just can't be right But he

1:11:14

did have the 22 caliber pistol when he was taken

1:11:17

into custody Which that's you

1:11:19

know, that's who that's not good.

1:11:21

So they talked to him more He

1:11:23

said well, I I hitchhiked

1:11:26

a ride with a 30 year old father of

1:11:28

two young daughters on the m43 That's

1:11:30

Gary smock and he

1:11:33

said that he pulled out his pistol and ordered

1:11:35

smock to stop on a rural road Over

1:11:37

here and pull over. He said I robbed

1:11:39

him. They said well, how much money did you get? This

1:11:45

is for $3 three bucks three

1:11:47

bucks this dude has a family

1:11:50

kids three dollars Is

1:11:53

that the lowest amount we've heard anyone murder

1:11:55

for three dollars and he

1:11:57

took his shoes by the way? He's wearing Gary

1:11:59

smock shoes At this time? At this very time.

1:12:01

Oh boy. He's fucking

1:12:03

wearing a dead band's shoes. Oh

1:12:06

Jesus. Don't kill someone, steal their shoes and then

1:12:08

wear them to the police station to talk about

1:12:10

it. That's not a good thing to

1:12:12

do. What did you take from him? Three bucks and

1:12:14

these kicks. And these. Yeah. Holy

1:12:17

smokes. That's not good. So he said that he

1:12:19

forced Smok to get in the trunk after that.

1:12:21

After he took his stuff, forced him to get

1:12:23

in the trunk and then he drove on. Larry

1:12:25

drove with Smok in the trunk. Larry

1:12:27

said he stopped when he heard Smok making noises

1:12:29

and banging around the trunk like Billy

1:12:31

Batson, Goodfellas. Help. This

1:12:35

went exactly like it went in Goodfellas. He

1:12:38

drives to a side road where he said he's

1:12:40

tied Smok's hands with a rope that he found

1:12:43

in the car. So then he's

1:12:45

got them laid down and his hands tied so

1:12:47

he can't make that much noise. So

1:12:49

then he shoots him twice in the back of the head. Good

1:12:52

lord. Yep. And

1:12:54

the trunk closes. The trunk drives on. Oh

1:12:56

my. With the body in

1:12:59

the trunk, he drove to Elkhart where

1:13:01

he obtained $100 in a holdup of a gas station

1:13:05

where he shot the guy at the gas station too.

1:13:08

That was Snyder. Yeah. So

1:13:10

yeah, he said he did that and yep, just shot him

1:13:12

in the back of the head and killed him. He

1:13:14

said that was pretty easy. Charles Edward Snyder,

1:13:16

33, is the gas station attendant in Elkhart

1:13:19

and he said, yeah, yeah, Gary's body was in the trunk and

1:13:21

I was in there robbing him and shooting him. Oh

1:13:23

my. So he's on a little murder

1:13:25

spree here. Yeah, he's got everything to

1:13:28

lose. I mean, nothing to lose but

1:13:30

everything to lose. And he's talking like

1:13:32

it's just, there's no consequences to this.

1:13:34

Yeah. It's fine. So he wants to

1:13:36

talk to a priest. Really? And he'll talk to

1:13:38

a shrink too, which is what he really needs to talk to. So

1:13:41

shortly after arriving at the station, he talks alone

1:13:43

with a priest for about an hour and

1:13:46

then after that he was read his rights. After

1:13:49

he confessed and talked to a priest for an hour, then

1:13:51

he was read his rights. Why did they do that? Because

1:13:54

it's 1964 and I think the Miranda thing was going

1:13:56

on right now. At this moment, yeah. 64 is the

1:13:58

case. Yeah. So they

1:14:00

didn't it's in the pay it's in the news, but

1:14:02

you didn't have to read a suspect

1:14:05

his rights right away There was a very gray area

1:14:07

in when you could do that So

1:14:09

he said he waved his rights didn't care

1:14:11

and I did it. That's it So

1:14:14

he's arraigned between 3 and 4 a.m. He's

1:14:17

advised by the judge of his right to an attorney and he

1:14:19

said I don't want one Really

1:14:21

don't need an attorney. Yep. He made

1:14:24

a complete and formal confession in court

1:14:26

recorded by the court reporter The

1:14:29

stenographer is doing this. Yeah, he's write it all down

1:14:31

He's like, I'll tell you everything I did right now

1:14:34

and they're like, I guess fuck it. We got a

1:14:36

guy typing so sure So

1:14:39

at 4 30 a.m The

1:14:41

doctor Clarence M. Schreier from the

1:14:43

medical see the medical superintendent of

1:14:45

the Kalamazoo State Hospital was called

1:14:48

and they said please check this guy out.

1:14:50

He's a psychiatrist and So

1:14:52

the doctor initially said can you bring him

1:14:54

back later in the morning? Little sleepy? Shortly

1:14:59

thereafter he called back and said, all right, I'll be

1:15:01

there at 8 o'clock to examine him so

1:15:03

he brought the clinical director of the Kalamazoo

1:15:05

State Hospital, dr. William Decker with him and

1:15:09

Yeah about six months earlier when he tried to kill

1:15:12

himself He had been admitted to this hospital and

1:15:14

this dr. Schreier had diagnosed him

1:15:17

as a sociopathic personality Six

1:15:20

months ago. So now he knows this guy So

1:15:23

just prior to the psychiatric examination

1:15:26

Larry stated to the assistant prosecuting attorney

1:15:28

who's also there middle of the fucking

1:15:30

night Quote you've mentioned something

1:15:32

about an attorney. I think I mean, I

1:15:34

think maybe I better have one The

1:15:38

assistant prosecuting deter attorney said no

1:15:41

He said no, I can't do that for you.

1:15:44

No magistrates gonna be available till 9 30 a.m

1:15:47

To appoint you an attorney because he doesn't have an attorney So

1:15:50

no one's available to appoint you an attorney so you can't

1:15:52

have an attorney till 9 30 at least So

1:15:55

the doctors conduct a two-hour

1:15:57

psychiatric examination while he's waiting

1:16:00

to get an attorney. So

1:16:02

I guess, yeah, that's fucking

1:16:04

crazy. So the

1:16:07

lawyer finally gets there at 1.30 p.m. That's

1:16:12

it. So seven hours after his

1:16:14

arrest and during an interview with a psychiatrist, he

1:16:16

says that, casually they said, real casual, that, yeah,

1:16:18

after I killed Smock, I washed the blood off

1:16:20

the trunk with a can of Coke or

1:16:23

a bottle of Coke. Really? Just rigged

1:16:25

it. Got rid of that. I got a cell cart

1:16:28

and I shot that gas station attendant. And

1:16:30

they said, is there anyone else? Have you shot anyone else?

1:16:32

This is a lot. It was a big day for a

1:16:34

guy like you. That's quick, yeah. Yeah. And

1:16:36

he said, yes. How many? And

1:16:39

he said, well, who? And he said, there was

1:16:41

that Air Force guy. I think it was Paw

1:16:43

Paw. I was robbing the gas station he worked

1:16:45

at. Air Force is

1:16:47

in like, when airplanes were

1:16:49

invented? Yeah, an Air Force

1:16:51

guy who worked at a

1:16:53

gas station on the side, apparently. And an old man

1:16:56

called him Paw Paw. So he had to near, Paw

1:16:58

Paw was the place. Oh, okay.

1:17:00

The person. So they said,

1:17:02

anything else? Anyone else? Yeah.

1:17:05

And he said, yes. Yeah. And

1:17:07

they said, okay, where? What?

1:17:10

He said, some guy running a gas station in

1:17:12

Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, one of those about a

1:17:14

month ago. He doesn't even remember what state he

1:17:16

was in when he killed a person. When, yeah.

1:17:18

Doesn't mean about a month ago. He

1:17:21

said, anyone else? Yeah. And

1:17:23

he said, some guy in Las Vegas, near

1:17:25

Vegas. He picked me up while I was

1:17:27

hitchhiking. That was the

1:17:29

guy he killed right before Pitts picked him up.

1:17:31

Pitts before, yeah. Yeah. He told

1:17:34

the psychiatrist, they said, well, why were you doing this? He said, money. I

1:17:36

just needed money. You know, robbed him. Of

1:17:38

nothing at a time. Like, very small amounts. He just

1:17:41

robbed him. Yeah. And they

1:17:43

said, well, what'd you use the money for? And he said, steaks and booze.

1:17:47

Steaks and booze. Wow. What

1:17:49

the, what are you, a cowboy? What the fuck are you

1:17:51

doing? Roll it into town. I mean, a

1:17:53

bottle of whiskey and a big steak. And

1:17:55

a room and a bath. And

1:17:58

a lady. Holy shit,

1:18:00

and it's nice. It's a 60s. Yeah, it's a

1:18:03

Tom and Jerry steak It's gotta be with the

1:18:05

bone in the middle. It's what's the

1:18:07

only steak they had in the 60s Bad

1:18:09

cut oh man. He

1:18:12

said steaks and booze He

1:18:14

said Wow, this is what he said it

1:18:17

sounds crazy But I

1:18:19

visualized it as a Last Supper before

1:18:21

I died this world owed me a

1:18:23

Last Supper which Constituted my concept

1:18:25

of a happy day a steak dinner

1:18:28

and to get drunk So

1:18:31

at the end of every time he kills someone

1:18:33

he decides he's gonna kill himself and he's gonna

1:18:35

have this big last dinner But then he goes

1:18:37

maybe I'll not kill myself. I'll rob someone else

1:18:39

have another last dinner. Oh, that's pretty good. Let's

1:18:41

do it again That's

1:18:43

what he does. He said each time he's

1:18:46

gonna kill himself into having gout man He's

1:18:48

gonna be loaded down heart disease. He's gonna

1:18:50

be a mess clogged arteries He

1:18:52

said each time he changed his mind about suicide

1:18:55

and decided to kill someone else instead I

1:18:59

Love steak and booze Steak and

1:19:01

being drunk especially in Vegas man. You robbed

1:19:03

somebody you can get a big old steak

1:19:05

and some whiskey What are these casinos for

1:19:08

nothing? He said I'd yeah for like

1:19:10

a dollar. He said I turned myself in to

1:19:12

get killed That's what he told

1:19:14

the psychiatrist. Yeah, he said I didn't turn myself

1:19:16

in to do time. All right, he

1:19:18

wants to be killed He

1:19:21

said I thought they had the electric chair

1:19:23

somebody told me they had the electric chair

1:19:25

at Jackson prison They called it Jacktown that

1:19:27

it was in the basement of Jacktown Jacktown

1:19:30

sounds like there's jizz everywhere. It

1:19:32

sounds gross Jacktown your sentence

1:19:34

to Jacktown. Oh, man Ankle

1:19:37

deep and just shaped all the time. You

1:19:39

got to wear boots all the time. Yeah

1:19:42

So they they talked to him more and

1:19:44

he said yeah the veteran guy he killed

1:19:46

ends up being a guy named Vernon Leben

1:19:49

Who was 23 years old? 23

1:19:53

year old Air Force guy who also worked in

1:19:55

this gas station and he didn't work.

1:19:57

He was just there I think I don't work there, but

1:19:59

he showed He got $200 from him. This

1:20:02

is at Battle Creek, Michigan, as he killed

1:20:04

the airmen. In addition,

1:20:07

he killed people in Las

1:20:09

Vegas, and Kentucky was that other gas station that he

1:20:11

didn't know the state it was in. And

1:20:14

he said that no

1:20:17

details were obtained in the other killings because they

1:20:19

said we have limited our

1:20:21

questioning up to now to

1:20:23

the smock case. He just volunteered the other

1:20:26

stuff, the cops said. We've got

1:20:28

proof of the smock thing. We've just got all this information

1:20:30

for this. We were asking him about that, and he's like,

1:20:32

let me tell you about some other people I killed. Like,

1:20:35

holy shit. So they have been looking for a

1:20:37

murderer in the other case. Battle Creek has been

1:20:39

looking for the Vernon Lebenn

1:20:41

murderer, because he's a Custer

1:20:44

air station airman, shot

1:20:46

to death April 6th at a

1:20:48

mobile station on West Columbia Road

1:20:50

near the I-94, where he worked

1:20:52

part-time to finance his night courses

1:20:54

at Kellogg Community College and to

1:20:56

save for his approaching marriage. Get

1:20:58

out of here. This fucking guy,

1:21:00

yeah. This kid is working his

1:21:02

fucking ass off. Working two

1:21:04

jobs, even the military, working at a gas

1:21:07

station, nights to fucking get extra cash and

1:21:09

someone comes in and fucking shoots him. Both

1:21:12

Smock and Lebenn were shot with .22 caliber

1:21:14

weapons, along with Snyder

1:21:16

to the Elkhart guy. Also

1:21:19

shot and robbed at the service station.

1:21:23

Reigns here, Larry said that he traded

1:21:25

a .22 caliber pistol used in Lebenn

1:21:27

murder for the weapon that he used

1:21:29

in the Indiana Elkhart murder and the

1:21:31

Smock murder. So

1:21:34

that would explain why the lab, the crime lab

1:21:36

said that the slugs didn't match. Two guns, yeah.

1:21:38

He said, yeah, it's because I had two guns.

1:21:40

I traded them. So two bullets have

1:21:42

been found to be similar, but a final test has

1:21:44

yet to be completed. Now,

1:21:46

they also talk about a possible sixth victim.

1:21:50

Maybe six? Maybe six. They

1:21:52

talk about this. This would be the

1:21:55

police talk about somebody

1:21:57

out, Donald Perkins, who's 27, another filling

1:22:00

station attendant. They

1:22:02

said that a bartender in the

1:22:05

town he was in said that Larry resembled

1:22:07

a youth who was in his tavern about

1:22:09

the time of the shooting of Donald Perkins.

1:22:12

So they're going to talk about that. Now October 1964, they

1:22:15

go to trial for Larry right away for

1:22:18

the murder of Gary and the murder of Edwards

1:22:21

and the murder of Lebenn. Larry

1:22:23

pleads insanity. That's his plea. He's

1:22:25

going to go insanity. The

1:22:28

shrink says that he has a high normal

1:22:30

IQ. He said about 110, so

1:22:32

in the normal range, high end of the normal.

1:22:35

They said during this, this

1:22:37

is Dr. Donald J. Carrick,

1:22:39

University of Michigan psychiatrist. He

1:22:42

interviewed him twice he said in the county jail

1:22:44

and he said that he was

1:22:47

mentally ill when Smock was killed and mentally

1:22:49

ill when he attempted to take his own

1:22:51

life with the hose there and mentally ill

1:22:53

at the present time. He

1:22:56

said that Raines would remain mentally

1:22:58

ill until he had proper psychiatric

1:23:00

care and he also said at

1:23:02

the time of the Smock murder, Raines did not

1:23:05

know right from wrong. He said he was driven

1:23:07

by an irresistible urge to kill. Irresistible.

1:23:10

Yeah. Wow. Man. He said it's

1:23:12

traced to his childhood. He said

1:23:15

he had, Larry had

1:23:17

confessed to the psychiatrist of five different

1:23:20

murders and he said in the end

1:23:22

they figured out that he chose victims

1:23:24

who reminded him of either his father

1:23:26

or himself. One of those

1:23:28

two, depending on who it

1:23:31

was there. So he hates

1:23:33

his father too. Yeah. So

1:23:35

during the trial, they had the

1:23:37

psychiatrist. Danny also testifies the brother.

1:23:39

Yeah. He testifies about the knife

1:23:41

incident. Holy. When they were kids, so

1:23:43

that's not good. He

1:23:45

said that although he and Larry have never

1:23:47

gotten along, he said, quote, I feel sorry

1:23:49

for him and I wish I could take

1:23:51

his place. Really? That's what

1:23:53

he says. So the verdict comes

1:23:55

in here and they

1:23:58

find him guilty as shit. I mean,

1:24:00

yeah, other than saying he's really crazy,

1:24:02

there's really nothing else he can do.

1:24:06

All the press there said he broke into a

1:24:08

big smile when they read the verdict. A

1:24:10

shit eating one? A shit eating grin.

1:24:13

They didn't mention what he was eating when

1:24:15

he smiled, but it was

1:24:17

a grin of some kind, broken with a big smile. Sentencing

1:24:20

here, you sir, may fuck

1:24:22

off life without parole. Okay.

1:24:26

He's 19, no parole.

1:24:28

And the story. He's fucked up. Yeah,

1:24:31

I don't know how you're gonna fix this guy. He's

1:24:33

a fucking mess. Yeah, that's a, life

1:24:36

though, he's 19. Holy shit. Now,

1:24:39

as soon as he goes to prison, Danny

1:24:43

breaks up with Kathy and hooks up with

1:24:45

Sue. Larry's

1:24:48

girlfriend. Well,

1:24:50

that's what I mean. They're in constant

1:24:52

competition. Not him, Danny. Larry disowns

1:24:54

them both. I want nothing to do with either

1:24:56

of these assholes. Good

1:24:59

news, man. He's very easy for

1:25:01

you to disown everybody. You

1:25:03

don't have to ever see these people, but he said he

1:25:05

doesn't want anything to do with his brother ever again, or

1:25:07

this woman, don't come to visit me, all that kind of

1:25:09

shit. He tries to off himself

1:25:11

in prison as well here, Larry does. He

1:25:14

smashed light bulbs and slipped

1:25:16

slivers of glass into gelatin

1:25:18

capsules that he swallowed at

1:25:20

bedtime. Oh, man.

1:25:23

So he could get them down, and that way they would go

1:25:25

in his stomach and fuck him up. That is a bad way

1:25:27

to die. That's not the way you

1:25:29

would choose to kill yourself. That's the craziest, holy

1:25:32

shit, man. That's dead serious. He said he woke

1:25:34

up and he was fine. He was disappointed. He was

1:25:36

like, what the fuck? Shut it out, huh? I'm fine,

1:25:38

just fine, I don't know. So

1:25:40

then he- Does that awesome? Ate him and the fucking

1:25:42

digested him? Then he works in the wood

1:25:44

shop, so he tried drinking a bunch of

1:25:46

lacquer thinner. Why would you do that?

1:25:49

Thought that would kill him. It says poison on

1:25:51

the bottle. That's why. But you're in the wood

1:25:53

shop. Use a saw, dog. Those

1:25:56

are apparently, you're supervised using a dog,

1:25:58

but not lacquer. So

1:26:00

he said that he didn't die, but quote,

1:26:02

the burp was horrible Which

1:26:05

I can imagine After

1:26:07

it's got an aftertaste. It's gonna it's

1:26:09

not like a wine. That's gonna it gets

1:26:11

better as you swallow it It's worse than

1:26:13

a seven-year-old drinking whiskey So

1:26:15

then he tried a trick that he heard about

1:26:17

from other prisoners with a heavy book he

1:26:21

tied a string around it and then

1:26:23

around his neck and then

1:26:25

he hang you hang the book off the edge of

1:26:27

your bed and People

1:26:29

in prison told him that when he fell asleep the

1:26:31

muscles in his neck would relax and the string would

1:26:34

choke him to death He

1:26:37

couldn't sleep he couldn't sleep because it was uncomfortable so

1:26:39

he had to stop he couldn't get it

1:26:41

to work Yeah, so he appeals

1:26:44

under a new state law here The

1:26:46

news he appealed this here saying that

1:26:49

the life in prison without parole the

1:26:51

new Michigan Constitution grants a right of

1:26:53

appeal to all convicted felons. This

1:26:56

is how long ago this was the clerk

1:26:58

of the Supreme Court is expected to set a date

1:27:00

for the hearing he pled insanity and Yeah,

1:27:03

he's saying he gets an automatic appeal. So he's gonna

1:27:05

try to do that. He does get used to prison

1:27:07

though Sure gets used

1:27:10

to it. He before he was

1:27:12

really anti-drug But before

1:27:14

he went into prison, he said he believed that marijuana

1:27:16

could lead a man to heroin and a violent death.

1:27:18

I Mean anything could

1:27:20

lead you to heroin and a violent. He

1:27:22

bought the whole fucking propaganda machine, huh?

1:27:25

They got him. It was the early 60s.

1:27:27

Yeah, and then in prison. He

1:27:30

started drinking homemade fucking

1:27:33

prison wine made from potatoes So

1:27:36

like vodka wine that would be and

1:27:38

he said he's got real into that and

1:27:40

he said in prison He wanted to nurture a

1:27:43

brutal image. That's what he said He

1:27:45

grew his hair long grew a big beard and

1:27:47

mustache and all that kind of thing. He's only

1:27:49

5-7 He tried to Manson it

1:27:51

basically weak chin. Jim weak chin skinny

1:27:54

guy Yeah, he ends

1:27:56

up getting up to as much as 235 pounds shit trying

1:28:00

to be formidable. Yeah, but he lifts weights

1:28:02

too all the time. He's trying to look

1:28:04

like a little scary guy here. Eventually

1:28:07

lost weight. He fasted on nothing but

1:28:09

black coffee for 29 days.

1:28:12

Imagine how jittery you'd be. Jittery

1:28:14

and shitting liquid out.

1:28:16

Oh, you'd be shitting coffee? Oh,

1:28:20

so yeah, he said that he frightened a lot

1:28:22

of people. He said because he killed five times,

1:28:25

people never knew what he was gonna do because

1:28:27

he was like the... you know, he killed the

1:28:29

most people of anybody around in the prison. So

1:28:31

like Jesus, he said, people made

1:28:33

it clear to me from the start that

1:28:35

I was different, unique, and dangerous and not

1:28:37

to be messed with, not to be hassled

1:28:40

at all. And I really never was, but

1:28:42

the mind trip of trying to grow into

1:28:44

those shoes. That's what he said. He said

1:28:46

early in his prison time, he built

1:28:49

a miniature crossbow from rubber bands and

1:28:51

the innards of a wind-up clock. Oh

1:28:54

no. Yeah, so he built a

1:28:56

little slingshot gun basically. And he's shooting at a

1:28:58

people. Yep, I

1:29:00

guess he was involved

1:29:03

in... well then

1:29:05

he hit it in the base of a

1:29:07

wooden chess board that he made with a

1:29:09

false bottom in wood shop. Then he was

1:29:11

part... he was the hitman in a plot

1:29:13

to kill a convict here, another fucking person,

1:29:16

a loan shark who had refused to lend

1:29:18

any of these eight men money. So these

1:29:20

eight guys get together, they choose... Larry

1:29:23

is the killer and they want to kill this guy. Larry

1:29:26

says his crossbow was ingenious. He

1:29:29

said, and it would have worked, but one of

1:29:31

the co-conspirators snitched and the

1:29:34

crossbow was discovered and he was

1:29:36

sent to solitary.

1:29:38

He said a black silent sensory

1:29:41

deprivation cell. Yes.

1:29:44

It's dark. He said it

1:29:46

had a toilet in the sink but they're

1:29:48

cemented into solid blocks. The toilet didn't flush.

1:29:50

They flushed it from the other side of

1:29:52

the wall and they never flushed that stinking

1:29:54

thing. It didn't have any water in it.

1:29:56

It was just disgusting. Oh Jesus.

1:29:59

He said he had a sink. that dribbled, one single faucet

1:30:01

that dribbled, there wasn't any handle on it

1:30:03

so whatever dribble they set up was the

1:30:06

dribble you got. What?

1:30:08

That's all you got for water. You said

1:30:10

aside from that you had a quarter inch

1:30:13

steel plate bed. He said I slept on

1:30:15

the floor. He said it has double

1:30:17

doors, it's soundproof, lightproof and you're totally

1:30:19

alone. You had one blanket and a

1:30:21

pair of white coveralls and a pair of socks.

1:30:23

That's all you had literally. You amused yourself with

1:30:25

a ball of dust. Sitting

1:30:29

here. He said they put me in

1:30:31

there another time for seven days for inciting a riot.

1:30:33

Well, that'll happen. Yeah, you'll get in trouble for that.

1:30:36

Don't do that. He said

1:30:38

they put me in there for seven days

1:30:40

and nothing ever affected me that deeply in

1:30:42

all my life. So this really affected him.

1:30:45

That's seven days of darkness as a motherfucker.

1:30:47

He said you couldn't have soap, water, toothbrush,

1:30:49

toothpaste, nothing. No towels, no washcloths, nothing. You

1:30:51

ever go camping when your hands get black

1:30:54

and greasy and rancid and they start stinking

1:30:56

because you can't wash them? And

1:30:59

there you have to eat with your hands because

1:31:01

you're not allowed to use any kind of utensils.

1:31:03

You always prayed they would feed you something that

1:31:05

would run or at least was small enough to

1:31:07

bounce so you could get it in your mouth

1:31:09

without touching it because you don't want to touch

1:31:11

it with those meat hooks you got after seven

1:31:13

days. Good lord. So I came out

1:31:15

and I said no, I can't let them do that

1:31:18

to me. So I made them take me back in.

1:31:21

You will right now you sons of

1:31:23

bitches so I did 21 days

1:31:26

because I had to show them and me

1:31:28

they couldn't make me afraid and they couldn't

1:31:30

control me with fear. So he

1:31:32

forced them to be put back in the hole

1:31:34

when he got out. Seven days I'll do it

1:31:36

again twice. Let's go. Let's go. That's because I'm

1:31:38

going to show you. Wow. Now 1969, Danny,

1:31:42

brother Danny, older brother, he

1:31:45

is arrested and tried in Battle Creek,

1:31:47

Michigan on charges of kidnapping and assault

1:31:49

while armed with a dangerous weapon and

1:31:51

intent to rob and steal. This

1:31:55

is a connection with he

1:31:57

kidnapped a Kellogg Community College.

1:32:00

girl and she escaped

1:32:02

unharmed when he was forced to stop his car

1:32:04

for something she took off and ran he's

1:32:07

found guilty of

1:32:09

a lesser charge of felonious

1:32:11

assault and sentenced to you sir may

1:32:14

fuck off three to four years in

1:32:16

prison now during

1:32:18

that time his wife divorces him while he's

1:32:20

in prison no different lady

1:32:22

not sue not Kathy different

1:32:24

one yeah these they get

1:32:26

married all the time and

1:32:28

divorce so 1972 Danny gets

1:32:30

parole so he does

1:32:32

about three years he returns to Kalamazoo

1:32:34

and gets a job as what Jimmy

1:32:38

driver gas station operator yeah there you go

1:32:40

why do you do that I don't know

1:32:42

why would they allow that that's what it's

1:32:44

a gas station they don't do they can

1:32:46

do background check if you fucking yeah that's

1:32:48

a great point it's a 60 their background

1:32:50

check and shit and check background check on

1:32:52

anybody nowadays you can barely get a background

1:32:54

check when people are working with 20 kids

1:32:56

never mind a gas station they don't care

1:32:59

if you steal something we'll just call the cops

1:33:01

it's all on film they don't like that he's

1:33:04

29 by the way Danny at this

1:33:06

point he makes friends with

1:33:08

a guy I won't even call him

1:33:10

a guy he makes friends with a 15 year old oh Jesus

1:33:14

he is 15 year old who is currently a

1:33:16

vagrant at the time a homeless

1:33:19

15 year old street urchin

1:33:21

kid yep named Brent Eugene

1:33:23

Costa k-o-s-t-e-r he's

1:33:26

got a bad family life he's got a schizophrenic

1:33:28

mother an alcoholic father and he's out on the

1:33:30

street now makes sense perfect these two are gonna

1:33:33

be great together in the 60s I'm sure there

1:33:35

was a great social structure

1:33:37

set a lot of stuff set up for these

1:33:39

kids yeah I'm sure so jail

1:33:42

is what they set up we got a we got a

1:33:45

hall for you and the air how you thought of the

1:33:47

army so at 15 Brent was game

1:33:49

for Anything

1:33:53

he said, he didn't care. He was up for

1:33:55

whatever. He's a street kid. He doesn't give a

1:33:58

shit. He'd already stolen cars, committed over a. The

1:34:00

burglaries and was completely out of control by

1:34:02

fifteen because we live in on the streets.

1:34:05

So. After meeting Brandt, Danny

1:34:07

provides him with. A

1:34:10

room in one of Daddy's girl friends

1:34:12

trailers One of his girlfriend stragglers is

1:34:14

that several girlfriends i assume they're all

1:34:17

in trailers not one of the rooms

1:34:19

in his girlfriend's trailer. Vs is one

1:34:21

of his girlfriends has a room extra.

1:34:24

So. Basically he becomes his father figure

1:34:26

here or there, meaningless twice as a.

1:34:29

It's pretty much twenty nine as opposed

1:34:31

to fifteen, so I'm he looks up

1:34:33

to him as this role model which

1:34:35

is not great. July Seventeenth, Nineteen, Seventy

1:34:38

Two. Now. Okay, at

1:34:40

least a jail. He sucked up

1:34:42

with Brent, Danny and Brenner a

1:34:44

little team. So I seventies motorcycle

1:34:47

riders in woods near Galesburg, Michigan

1:34:49

come across an abandoned blue Opal

1:34:51

Cadet that's the car locals saddam

1:34:54

was nice to little. While.

1:34:56

Yet so openly I dodged ended up being

1:34:58

part of up. Or whether Dodge bought Opal.

1:35:01

Maybe maybe after a while and ever since.

1:35:04

They in the car. In the backseat

1:35:06

of the car, they find the pretty

1:35:08

decomposed bodies of two young women in

1:35:10

the vaccine. The. Cars registration

1:35:13

is traced to a Chicago area man

1:35:15

who had reported his daughter missing, so

1:35:17

get a pretty good idea who this

1:35:19

might be. She went with her roommate

1:35:21

to see her brother in Ann Arbor,

1:35:23

but never got their. Guy.

1:35:26

They were reported missing to the Chicago

1:35:28

Area police and July fifth. While they

1:35:30

are on a trip to and arbor

1:35:33

here, I'm fingerprints help identify them as

1:35:35

Linda Clark and Claudia Bid Strop be

1:35:37

I D S T R U P.

1:35:40

both of them nineteen years old college

1:35:42

students. I'm so they find them in

1:35:44

the back. I like I said, this

1:35:46

is off the M Ninety Six A

1:35:49

Find them. Now.

1:35:51

The Still What Is The daughter of

1:35:53

a Chicago Police Detective. Oh.

1:35:56

That's not good. The autopsy.

1:35:59

they're if they're so decompose that they're unable

1:36:01

to find a cause of death at the

1:36:03

time from autopsy. Shit. But the

1:36:05

ropes are later on they will when they look

1:36:07

at the reports but the ropes around their neck

1:36:09

indicated they've been strangled though because they both have

1:36:11

ropes around their neck. They said they've been murdered

1:36:13

for it had to be more than a week

1:36:15

before they were found and

1:36:18

this is in July. Summer

1:36:20

in fucking Michigan? So

1:36:23

the gas tank was full so

1:36:25

they surmised they couldn't have found

1:36:27

their killer very far from here

1:36:30

because the gas tank's full so

1:36:32

they started to check around the immediate area and

1:36:36

Jesus Christ. Now on July 5th

1:36:38

Danny was at work at the

1:36:40

Sprinkle Road service station there

1:36:43

and we'll tell you exactly what happened to

1:36:45

these two girls. Linda

1:36:47

and Claudia pulled up about 1.30 a.m.

1:36:49

to get gas and Danny was working at the

1:36:51

station. Koster, Brent,

1:36:55

fills their tank because this is in the

1:36:57

full service days. You come out somebody pops

1:36:59

your hood, checks your oil, you know fill

1:37:01

the tank. Now Danny

1:37:03

pops the hood okay and Koster's

1:37:05

filling the tank. What

1:37:08

Danny does is he's not checking

1:37:10

for fluids and all that. He's

1:37:12

dismantling a wire to the spark

1:37:14

plugs and making the car

1:37:17

sound as if there's a problem with it. He

1:37:19

then had the girls drive the car into the bay

1:37:21

of the garage so he could have a closer look

1:37:23

at it. I'll just felt it's got to be something

1:37:25

easy. I'll take care of it for it. Oh he's

1:37:27

so nice. Thank God it's 1.30 a.m. What are we

1:37:29

gonna do? It ran perfect for you to get here.

1:37:32

Now all of a sudden it's all

1:37:34

fucked up and they didn't know any

1:37:36

better. They're like okay so they did

1:37:38

this. When they pull into the bay Brent

1:37:40

and Danny pull knives out. Danny

1:37:43

tells them not to scream and he won't hurt them.

1:37:46

He then tells them to get into the back

1:37:48

seat and he drives the car to the back

1:37:50

of the station where it's totally dark back there.

1:37:53

Now Brent and Larry tie them up.

1:37:56

One of them kept watch on the girls while the other

1:37:59

one then went and attended. to the customers. Remember,

1:38:01

it's a gas station. It's open 24 hours. So

1:38:04

when they got them all tied up, they'd say,

1:38:06

you stay here. I got to go check somebody

1:38:08

out and fucking... There's no automatic,

1:38:10

you know, card at the pump. Six gallons in that

1:38:12

end, so I'll be right back. I got to go.

1:38:15

Yeah, I got to go check the oil on this

1:38:17

fucking Studebaker. Hold on a minute here. So

1:38:20

Cost, Brent saw, when

1:38:23

he comes back, I guess, he

1:38:26

sees Danny

1:38:28

sexually assaulting Linda, and

1:38:31

then later said that Danny told him that he'd

1:38:33

also had sex with Claudia, too. So he raped

1:38:36

both of them, Danny did, he said. Then,

1:38:38

Coster rapes Linda in the

1:38:41

van as well. Oh, that's nice.

1:38:43

Danny puts Claudia back into the

1:38:45

car, and I guess that

1:38:48

is where he told, Danny

1:38:51

tells Brent that it's time to kill

1:38:53

her now. He said, it's

1:38:55

time for you to, quote, taste the medicine, is

1:38:57

what he told him, and kill her. He

1:39:00

had tried to strangle her with a rope, but

1:39:03

he couldn't. He couldn't get the job, because it

1:39:05

takes a while, and it takes a long time.

1:39:07

It's strangle. He's a huge guy. He's six foot

1:39:09

six. Really? Brent is a fucking

1:39:11

gigantic monster. He's a big 250 pound

1:39:13

six foot six on his edge. Very

1:39:16

capable of strangling people. Yeah, he just

1:39:18

can't really do it, but then Danny

1:39:20

comes in and helps him, and together

1:39:22

they strangle her. Teamwork, you know, makes

1:39:24

the dream work, as we know. So

1:39:28

then they turn to Linda, and

1:39:30

Brent manages to strangle her on his own.

1:39:32

He manages to pull that off. He

1:39:34

learned from watching. They put both women into the

1:39:37

back seat of the opal and cover them with

1:39:39

a blanket. Then

1:39:41

Brent drove the car by himself to

1:39:43

a wooded area near Galesburg. He

1:39:45

poured gasoline over it and lit a cigarette.

1:39:49

Then he placed the cigarette on the floor

1:39:51

of the car, but

1:39:54

left before he knew if it actually

1:39:56

caught, which it didn't. It did nothing, because

1:39:58

it's the fumes, not the liquid. It's

1:40:00

the fumes not the liquid, it sparks not

1:40:02

actual... And it's got to get hot. Yeah,

1:40:04

there's many different reasons why that

1:40:06

didn't work. When you see in a movie when

1:40:08

someone, there's a trail of gas and somebody flicks

1:40:11

a cigarette and all, but that really rarely would

1:40:13

happen. If the cigarette hit right and the spark

1:40:15

hit it, then maybe... I've

1:40:17

tried flicking cigarettes in campfires